Mud and terrain affects on CV

[Chris21wen]

I really should know this but can't find it in the manual nor the forum but I need to confirm it.

It's the terrain/weather in the terrain you are attacking into that affects the attacking units CV! For instance, if a unit is in a mud hex and attacks out into clear then mud has no effect on the combat. The reverse is obviously true.

This is one reason why the attacking CV on the counters can bear no resembance to the actual initial CV as calculated when the combat is initiated.

[Telemecus]

Its probably a good reminder that even better maths CV is not the final word either. Hex side features like rivers are not included and then yes of course as you point out if the hex being attacked has different terrain/weather from where it is being attacked from then attacker CV is even less useful.

[Chris21wen]

I've just carried out a little test after finding a save where one area had clear and the next mud.

What I said is correct for terrain/forts etc which is how I thought it worked, but not for mud (and assume other weather conditions). Seems it's the weather in the units own hex that affacts it's CV and not the hex its attacking into.

I tried one attack from mud with penalty, reloaded, moved it to a clear hex no penalty.

[xhoel]

For attacking, the terrain where your attacking units are located determines the weather modifier. If your units are in mud and are attacking a unit in the clear they will suffer the mud penalty. For terrain, it is the weather in the hex that is being attacked.

It is the same in WitW.

Cheers!

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Its probably a good reminder that even better maths CV is not the final word either. Hex side features like rivers are not included and then yes of course as you point out if the hex being attacked has different terrain/weather from where it is being attacked from then attacker CV is even less useful.

Two things Tele on rivers .. one is the terrain bonus to defensive CV.. the other is the disruption rules depending on minor vs major river. The end effects can affect CV dramatically .. (Defense getting a boost and all the automatic disruptions before the first shot is fired ).

[EwaldvonKleist]

Non-exhaustive list of some hard (non RNG-modifiers)

Terrain: Taken from attacked hexagon.
Weather: Taken from the hexagon you attack from.

Multiplier (already shown in initial CV):
*2 for infantry type elements in dense terrain (heavy woods, rough, swamp, city)
*4 for infantry type elements in very dense terrain (mountain, urban, heavy urban)
/2 for AFV type elements in dense terrain
/4 for AFV type elements in very dense terrain

*2 for all elements in a mountain/jaeger unit if fighting in mountain hexagon, already shown on map and in initial CV

Rivers (effect already shown in initial CV):
roughly /2 for minor rivers for infantry type elemeents due to automatic pre-combat disruption, more severe for AFV type elements
roughly /3 for major rivers for infantry type elements due to automatic pre-combat disruption, more severe for AFV type elements

Lack of vehices reduces offensive CV for all unit types

If the unit is unready, offensive CV are halved (already shown on the counter)

then there are special blizzard rules.

[Colbert]

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Rivers (effect already shown in initial CV):

How can rivers be included in the CV on the counter? You do not know if the attack will be across a river or not?

[morvael]

They can't. They are applied as disruption at start of combat only to those units that attack across rivers. But on battle report they are included from the start.

[EwaldvonKleist]

Initial CV=CV shown in battle report on the left side of the arrow

Initial CV=\=on counter CV! i mean two different things with this.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Colbert

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Rivers (effect already shown in initial CV):

How can rivers be included in the CV on the counter? You do not know if the attack will be across a river or not?

The counter CV is only an indication as to how a unit will do in combat and is not used as shown. Instead, when any battle is initiated, it is re-calculated and an initial CV worked out to include all multipliers as mentioned here.

While updating the unofficial manual's index I found this process to be unclear which is why I asked the original question. I will be changing the manual so it is clearer.