Paratroops landing 2 hexes from Algers, triggering fall of all France

[HamburgerMeat]

I just did the following in two multiplayer games with cheesy success:

Step 1: on turn one refund italy's LRA research and logistics research chits. Buy paratroopers on turn one

Step 2: do not advance too deep into france immediately, wait until the paratroopers can land in tripoli. This is because you don't want italy to be at war before the paratroopers are ready to jump

Step 3: land someplace 2 hexes within Algers. Take Paris

Congratulations, all of france is yours!

This seems too easy to perform, with little risk for the axis. The allies would have to declare war on italy to preemtively knock out the ports, but that lowers US mobilization.

Maybe increase the number of units required to be near Algers?

[pjg100]

I agree that this is probably too easy. Perhaps the Axis should be required to either (i) take Algiers, or (ii) take Tunis and have at least two/three units within two hexes of Algiers. That would put an end to the single paratroop drop gambit and require some real but manageable effort from the Axis in order to obtain a complete surrender.

[jesperpehrson]

I was on the recieving end of Hamburgmeats cheese and I must admit that it feels like a rather gamey move. Just like landing a french unit in Albania with no hope of doing anything.
Maybe we should make a gentlemans agreement on certain moves to not be used that can be agreed upon before starting a game?

What are the cheesy moves that so obviously makes no sense strategically but triggers certain events?
1. Italians paradropped near Algiers.
2. French unit in Albania.

[lwarmonger]

3. The Japanese blockade of vladivostok, while working as designed, is just cheese. Place a motor torpedo boat there and you inflict 80 MPP a turn worth of losses on the Soviets at no cost.

[Christolos]

I may have missed this, but is there any plans to address this in the next patch? I think I remember some discussion about disallowing MTBs from doing this and/or requiring a minimum number of ships and/or ship types, for this to happen...

C

[smckechnie]

Just to clarify the cheesy move.

Are you saying that all of France surrenders if para unit is 2 hexes from Algiers and Paris is taken? There is no option for France to continue fighting from North Africa? Has their been any Allied units in Algiers when this move has been done?

Is Spain automatically joining the Axis? Or is this move just allowing the axis to take all of Algeria? What happens to the other French colonies with this move?

Obviously, I would say that this move shouldn't be allowed and the game scripts need to be adjusted.

[jesperpehrson]

France gets no options nor does it get to continue fighting from NA. It does get to keep some of the overseas colonies that it would not normally, like Madagascar and Djibouti but it loses the colony in the Pacific that it would get under normal vichyrules.

There were french units in Algeria and Tunis when it happened.

Spain does not get any extra diplomatic hit that I could see.

[taffjones]

This issue was raised some time ago, and in one of the updates France was given an additional garrison unit in NA to help Defend Algiers and stop a Axis unit getting within 2 Hexes of it.

But I think players who don't know about it are moving the corps from Algeria to help defend France.

The best way to stop this tactic is to move the Algerian Corps to the settlement to the East of Algiers and move the Garrison unit into Algiers.

Then If a Axis unit turns up the Algerian corps is entrenched and will have better Supply and Readiness than the Axis unit, the garrison unit can be used to counter attack the Axis unit after it has been attacked by the corps, which should be enough to force it to retreat away to the East and more than 2 hexes away from Algiers.

[Helsingor]

I had earlier pointed out the fact it was not in the manual that the Axis needed only to have a land unit within 2 hexes of Algiers. I don’t object to the condition, just to the fact that it’s not spelled out. Easy enough to counter, if you are aware of it.

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: lwarmonger

3. The Japanese blockade of vladivostok, while working as designed, is just cheese. Place a motor torpedo boat there and you inflict 80 MPP a turn worth of losses on the Soviets at no cost.

Just to clarify, the Axis vessel doing it should always suffer damage, and that damage will be increased in the next patch.

[lwarmonger]

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

ORIGINAL: lwarmonger

3. The Japanese blockade of vladivostok, while working as designed, is just cheese. Place a motor torpedo boat there and you inflict 80 MPP a turn worth of losses on the Soviets at no cost.

Just to clarify, the Axis vessel doing it should always suffer damage, and that damage will be increased in the next patch.

Still seems like a no brainer and very exploitable. Take two motor torpedo boats and just rotate them. Easy 80 MPPs a turn gone. Even if you are killing up to 5 points of ship each turn it is still extremely worthwhile and easy exchange, and there is no reason not to do this ahistorical thing.

A far better response is to give the Soviet Union the option to declare war on the Japanese with a mobilization bonus (ie if the far east is being blockaded then a "far eastern army" spawns in the event the Soviet Union declares war... then blockading Vladivostock becomes a real risk for the Axis).

[ThunderLizard11]

ORIGINAL: jesperpehrson

France gets no options nor does it get to continue fighting from NA. It does get to keep some of the overseas colonies that it would not normally, like Madagascar and Djibouti but it loses the colony in the Pacific that it would get under normal vichyrules.

There were french units in Algeria and Tunis when it happened.

Spain does not get any extra diplomatic hit that I could see.

Just to be clear - you just need a unit within 2 hexes of Algiers?

[taffjones]

Hi ThunderLizard

Yes a Axis land unit within 2 hexes of Algiers when "France" surrenders. Will give you a "All of France".

Its best to keep the 2 French units you get in Algeria there, rather than shipping them to help defend France or landing in Italy. If you want to try and stop a "All of France" situation.

[Kaukopartio]

ORIGINAL: HamburgerMeat

Step 2: do not advance too deep into france immediately, wait until the paratroopers can land in tripoli. This is because you don't want italy to be at war before the paratroopers are ready to jump

Why Tripoli though? Tried it out against the AI recently by making the jump from south-western Sicily. Saves MPPs and you get better supply/readiness from Sicily. Perhaps weather can be a problem? The previous two turns it was raining in Sicily, but cleared out just at the right time. In NA you might get sandstorms, I don't know which is more likely.

[HamburgerMeat]

I'm pretty sure that without LRA upgrades, a paratrooper can't jump from Sicily to within 2 hexes of Algers in one turn

[Kaukopartio]

From the western tip of the island. Jump and move one hex. Can choose between two hexes with the movement and end up within 2 of Algiers if I remember correctly.