Guadalcanal scenario: took Lunga & Tulagi, what now?

[Randy Stead]

I got about two weeks into my first run with the Guadalcanal scenario as Allies. Made a mess of it, but this is a learning process. Glad I can make my mistakes in a sandbox before having my pants pulled down on stage for the whole world to see.

This go around I have played a bit better, having learned from my previous mistakes. I did not waste precious political points on rear units for reinforcements at Tulagi. I gave it some extra treatment with a couple of bombardments and one air strike from a carrier. Both Lung and Tulagi fell in one shot.

I encountered an "inferior" IJN force of two DDs in a night action at Tulagi. They crossed my T and did some damage to my TF; I got one of them hard, and in daylight a carrier strike did some more damage. Those SBDs aren't so hot at hitting fast, small targets like DDs. I am hoping in the coming turn to punish them some more.

I have to get my damaged ships back to port for repair. Lost one xAK. Now my amphibious force is empty. I am planning now on sending some ships to Lunga to pick up engineers and aviation support in order to prep Henderson Field.

My main area of concern, for which I am seeking advice, is how to keep my guys supplied. The ports are small and I learned painfully from my first go-around that sending small cargo runs with smaller escort, in order to fit in the dock for regular unloading, is very hazardous because of marauding surface units and air power. So, is my best option to make an amphibious TF and fill it with supplies, then run the supplies in over the beach, with heavier units as protection? This is what I am thinking, but I thought it best to ask the veterans here if that is the best thing to do in the circumstances.

I could also use some advice on how best to deploy my precious CV groups. For now there are no IJN carriers but I know that changes later. Should I pile 3-4 into one group, or have two 2-CV groups?

I also know the IJN have some heavy surface units, BBs. How to deal with those giants? They creamed my butt at Lunga-Tulagi in a night engagement and sank about a dozen transports and several smaller escorts like DDs. Very painful. [X(]

Thanks.

[RangerJoe]

Split your CVs into separate TFs but have them in the same hex. Give them your best AAA surface units. When not engaging the enemy, train the pilots.

Small fast transports can bring in some supplies and depart. Protect them with PT Boats patrolling one hex away with a larger SCTF protecting them. Make sure that the fast transport TFs as well as the surface TF have ships with radar to help prevent surprise. Do NOT have the DD Blue patrolling since it did not do a good job of that during the war. Brooklyn/Helena CLs work great - they keep firing, and firing, and firing . . . [X(]

Get as many ships in an Amphib TF to bring in the reinforcements with some only loaded with supply. Do not worry aboout getting the ships completely loaded, just one turn or two of unloading. There are two turns per day. Get in and get out fast, do not tarry. What does not unload one time will unload the next.

Moonlight and clear skies are your friends for night operations.

The most dangerous place to be in a night surface battle is on the only ship that is burning . . . [X(]

[Randy Stead]

Thanks, Joe.

[RhinoDad]

My main area of concern, for which I am seeking advice, is how to keep my guys supplied. The ports are small and I learned painfully from my first go-around that sending small cargo runs with smaller escort, in order to fit in the dock for regular unloading, is very hazardous because of marauding surface units and air power. So, is my best option to make an amphibious TF and fill it with supplies, then run the supplies in over the beach, with heavier units as protection? This is what I am thinking, but I thought it best to ask the veterans here if that is the best thing to do in the circumstances.

Mostly played in older version so may be outdated, but think the gist is still the same.

I will have several ships with only supply with the initial invasion and follow up reinforcements, if needed. That not only gets much supply on beach immediately, but also ensures that supply is offloaded from very beginning so first combat after landing is done by troops with full supply. Nothing is worse than some men and equipment unloaded but now in combat with little/no supply. If on an atoll you will be shock attacking. Also if TF is forced to withdrawal for some reason the troops will have plenty of supply unloaded to help carry them over until you can return to finish unloading the landing.

To load supply only ship I make them a separate TF then combine with troop TF for landing.

Not sure the exact order of debarkation of ship loaded with supply, equipment, and men; but it is something like (Men and light equipment, supply, heavy equipment). Regardless of exact order if you have supply only ships much more supply will be available on initial landing. Your men will be in full supply from the first moments.

This should leave a large enough supply on beach to last for some time/days. I found it hard to unload supplies from a few ships at a time, not over beach, to keep up with the daily usage. Also as you mentioned they can easily fall prey to a few DD or such swinging on by; a few planes or DD can ruin your whole day. If forced to do so due to protracted battle or not enough initial supply then as Joe said amphibious load up supply on ships but only what will be offloaded in one day or at night. Then run these in and if done right will be leaving come day, or night depending on when they landed, and how many pulses you loaded supplies for. Ships hanging out for more than one day are only fun for the opposing player.

Also as Joe suggests break your carrier into two groups of two in the same hex. The CAP from one will cover the other as well as themselves, and odds are that enemy air will only attack one TF and not both. Gives you close to same CAP as one large group while lowering your risk of all your CVs.

You also might want to check the year and air coordination algorithm as explained in the manual and on forum. Early war it is easy to have too many carriers in one TF strike and cause or increase the odds of an uncoordinated attack.

If you are worried about being gamey as you have stated earlier. The Americans by and large split their CVs into different TF groups, often more than 1 CV, even if operating closely by each other, the Japanese tended to keep theirs together in one TF.

[Randy Stead]

I've got to do more studying of the manual again. How do I implement the Allied version of the Tokyo Express, in other words, bring in small amounts of supply very fast?

I've got one group of transports making their way to Luganville to pick up engineers and such to take to Lunga. Then I will do the same for Tulagi.

My problem is both bases are woefully undersupplied and just about everything capable of carrying supply is empty, on the way back. I've sent some supplies to Efate and Luganville, which will keep them going for a while. I'm also loading an AE in Noumea to get it over to Luganville and meet the returning transports in order to rearm them.

My damaged surface combat ships are now back at Noumea patching up. Nothing major, thankfully, just points that can repaired pierside and not needing a shipyard.

I
ve got some tender type ships sitting idle at Noumea simply because I don't know what to do with them.

My carriers are now movjng toward Milne Bay as some IJN surface combatants are moving that way. I hope to cut them off and hurt them. There are no ships in the Lunga-Tulagi area that need protection at the moment.

This really is Operation Shoestring. My guys got ashore, took both bases first turn and are now sitting around trying to figure out how to open coconuts and prepare kelp for chow. How the heck did the real guys do it?

Seeking an opinion here: How difficult do you veterans rate the Guadalcanal scenario for Allied vs AI? For IJN vs AI? From what I've read this scenario is even more challenging for IJN as they have even fewer supplies and fuel.

[RangerJoe]

The real guys did it by eating captured Japanese rations.

Select making a new TF, then select Fast Transport, then see what ships that can carry supplies and/or troops can go in the TF. Use the faster ships like APDs and AVDs but NOT AVs. Load them up, provide an escort, and pause so the ships can go in one turn and come out.

Don't worry about rearming the transports, rearm the surface vessels and carriers.

Read about the auxillary ships again, some of the tenders can help with pier side repairs. If the damage is in RED then that is major damage and can't be repaired except for 5 points or less by a repair ship or a repair shipyard. An ARD can repair all float damage, however. Some of the damage may be major, some may be minor. You do not have to specify that the repairs are to be done by repair ship, they will work where they are needed.

[fcooke]

I think you get 4 APDs in that game - they can do the Tokyo express thing. There are also a couple of AMCs that can do the fast transport thing but not sure if they can unload in a single night. I ran my supply convoys way East when I played that - direct tends to run you into IJN subs (they didn't call that 'Torpedo Alley' for no reason).

And and take back Tassaf.....it will take a bit to get the pol points but with the 1st and 2nd Mar divs it will be easy pickings. March them though, don't land them.

[RhinoDad]

They also had YPs delivering about 200 tons of refrigerated fresh meat, generally steak, and vegetables every few days/week. That was only available for the marines that were rotated back to the beach area. That could take a number of days or longer for rotation so until then it was nothing or a few k-rations that you happened to have.

As part of the Tuna Clippers out of Southern California they were only about 120' or so and were relatively shallow draft so they could get up close to the beach for quick supply.

These are not represented in the game that I can tell. To small for xAKL and the YPs of that class are not represented at least by Ship number. YP in game are more the Harbour patrol ASW type.

[RhinoDad]

Find the right port size for correct loading speed and then only load ship with amount of supply that will unload in one pulse. They will arrive at night or day, unload then be leaving with next pulse.

You move them to a set point, "Remain on Station", so at given speed will arrive at time of your choosing, then change to "Retirement allowed" Order them in and they will arrive at desired pulse, unload and be on their way the next pulse.

To little supply is okay but too much and they will stay longer to unload before getting underway.

[RangerJoe]

If you read about the "funny" ships, they abstracted those and a lot of the smaller ones are not actually represented in the game but their effects are probably represented by the movement of supplies and such across water from one base to another base.

[RhinoDad]

Oh, did not know that supply would move across water except in adjacent bases. But would be nice to have some YPs that could dash in unload some supplies from a distance and get out without attracting too much unwanted attention. Though with supply abstracted and ammo and food combined it would be hard to simulate and would probably add un-needed complexity for little result.

[RangerJoe]

Yes, supply moves across water in adjacent hexes only. It would complicate things with so many small ships like:

"I have a 20 foot long sailboat, how many men can it carry or how many supplies can it haul?"

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

The real guys did it by eating captured Japanese rations.

Select making a new TF, then select Fast Transport, then see what ships that can carry supplies and/or troops can go in the TF. Use the faster ships like APDs and AVDs but NOT AVs. Load them up, provide an escort, and pause so the ships can go in one turn and come out.

Don't worry about rearming the transports, rearm the surface vessels and carriers.

Read about the auxillary ships again, some of the tenders can help with pier side repairs. If the damage is in RED then that is major damage and can't be repaired except for 5 points or less by a repair ship or a repair shipyard. An ARD can repair all float damage, however. Some of the damage may be major, some may be minor. You do not have to specify that the repairs are to be done by repair ship, they will work where they are needed.

Not sure about that last part - for major Engineering damage IME you have to assign the ship to the AR.

[Randy Stead]

Joe, does that mean Tulagi can draw supply from Lunga? I always thought the "adjacent" condition was when both hexes are attached by land, i.e. two bases adjacent to each other on coastal hexes. If I am hearing your correctly, the supply can be ported across from Lunga to Tulagi? If that is true it will ease my woes, somewhat.

Sorry for being dense. I'd rather answer a question and look stupid, rather than remain silent, appear smart but actually be dumb.

Just finished turn 8. I sent my carriers over towards Milne Bay. They overkilled [39 bomb and torpedo] hits on five Marus and a patrol boat, 100% sunk. They were trying to bring supplies/troops to Buna. If I can keep this up the 144th and supporting units on the Kokoda trail will be picking through Aussie dung for undigested corn niblets.

I'm loading up most of the 114th group at Luganville in an attempt to get them into Lunga so they can get to work on Henderson Field and the base. A bit later I will try to get the remainder of the 114th and an engineer unit over there. To cover them I am swinging the carriers back and will soon assemble an amphibious unit at Noumea to try what you guys have advised, a midnight drop and run.

Well, that is all for tonight. Going to hit the rack early and watch a film with the administration. I find I can get absorbed in a game to the exclusion of all else, so I have to make sure to schedule "us" time so she doesn't get resentful. Actually, she's rather pleased that I am tackling a game like this after my brain surgery. For two years afterwards I could not get into anything deep. No book reading for two years, which is tough on a guy like me who likes to get through 2-3 books a week when possible. I think she's pleased that I've bitten into something that challenges my intellect and planning. I still struggle with short term memory issues, so this game is a form of rehab for my brain.

Edit: P.S. I have lost 9 planes in 8 days to operational losses. Is this excessive? Two Wildcats crashed on landing after tangling with Zeros near Milne Bay, as well as an SBD landing back on the carrier.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you read about the "funny" ships, they abstracted those and a lot of the smaller ones are not actually represented in the game but their effects are probably represented by the movement of supplies and such across water from one base to another base.

There are two or three xAKLs that are "Banana Boats" - designed to get bananas to market before they ripened from Central America to USA. The fastest does something like 20 knots. Select the All Ships list, filter for xAK types and scan the speed listed for the xAKLs.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Joe, does that mean Tulagi can draw supply from Lunga? I always thought the "adjacent" condition was when both hexes are attached by land, i.e. two bases adjacent to each other on coastal hexes. If I am hearing your correctly, the supply can be ported across from Lunga to Tulagi? If that is true it will ease my woes, somewhat.

Sorry for being dense. I'd rather answer a question and look stupid, rather than remain silent, appear smart but actually be dumb.

Just finished turn 8. I sent my carriers over towards Milne Bay. They overkilled [39 bomb and torpedo] hits on five Marus and a patrol boat, 100% sunk. They were trying to bring supplies/troops to Buna. If I can keep this up the 144th and supporting units on the Kokoda trail will be picking through Aussie dung for undigested corn niblets.

I'm loading up most of the 114th group at Luganville in an attempt to get them into Lunga so they can get to work on Henderson Field and the base. A bit later I will try to get the remainder of the 114th and an engineer unit over there. To cover them I am swinging the carriers back and will soon assemble an amphibious unit at Noumea to try what you guys have advised, a midnight drop and run.

Well, that is all for tonight. Going to hit the rack early and watch a film with the administration. I find I can get absorbed in a game to the exclusion of all else, so I have to make sure to schedule "us" time so she doesn't get resentful. Actually, she's rather pleased that I am tackling a game like this after my brain surgery. For two years afterwards I could not get into anything deep. No book reading for two years, which is tough on a guy like me who likes to get through 2-3 books a week when possible. I think she's pleased that I've bitten into something that challenges my intellect and planning. I still struggle with short term memory issues, so this game is a form of rehab for my brain.

Edit: P.S. I have lost 9 planes in 8 days to operational losses. Is this excessive? Two Wildcats crashed on landing after tangling with Zeros near Milne Bay, as well as an SBD landing back on the carrier.

The ports have to face each other across adjacent hexes and clear ocean hexside. The amount that moves across daily is limited by the size of the smallest port, and it flows automatically from less demand to higher demand. I think a level 1 port is about 50 points of supply daily.

EDIT: Op losses after combat cannot be helped, except by higher Pilot Experience which comes from ... combat! [:D]
Can't assess the level of ops losses without knowing a whole lot of stuff about how many missions flown, type, distance, how critical the mission is, etc. So as always "It depends".

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you read about the "funny" ships, they abstracted those and a lot of the smaller ones are not actually represented in the game but their effects are probably represented by the movement of supplies and such across water from one base to another base.

There are two or three xAKLs that are "Banana Boats" - designed to get bananas to market before they ripened from Central America to USA. The fastest does something like 20 knots. Select the All Ships list, filter for xAK types and scan the speed listed for the xAKLs.

The ships actually look like they were converted from 4-piper destroyers.

You know those banana flip cakes? They were developed by someone who used the bananas that were too ripe to go to market to make them.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Joe, does that mean Tulagi can draw supply from Lunga? I always thought the "adjacent" condition was when both hexes are attached by land, i.e. two bases adjacent to each other on coastal hexes. If I am hearing your correctly, the supply can be ported across from Lunga to Tulagi? If that is true it will ease my woes, somewhat.

Sorry for being dense. I'd rather answer a question and look stupid, rather than remain silent, appear smart but actually be dumb.

Just finished turn 8. I sent my carriers over towards Milne Bay. They overkilled [39 bomb and torpedo] hits on five Marus and a patrol boat, 100% sunk. They were trying to bring supplies/troops to Buna. If I can keep this up the 144th and supporting units on the Kokoda trail will be picking through Aussie dung for undigested corn niblets.

I'm loading up most of the 114th group at Luganville in an attempt to get them into Lunga so they can get to work on Henderson Field and the base. A bit later I will try to get the remainder of the 114th and an engineer unit over there. To cover them I am swinging the carriers back and will soon assemble an amphibious unit at Noumea to try what you guys have advised, a midnight drop and run.

Well, that is all for tonight. Going to hit the rack early and watch a film with the administration. I find I can get absorbed in a game to the exclusion of all else, so I have to make sure to schedule "us" time so she doesn't get resentful. Actually, she's rather pleased that I am tackling a game like this after my brain surgery. For two years afterwards I could not get into anything deep. No book reading for two years, which is tough on a guy like me who likes to get through 2-3 books a week when possible. I think she's pleased that I've bitten into something that challenges my intellect and planning. I still struggle with short term memory issues, so this game is a form of rehab for my brain.

Edit: P.S. I have lost 9 planes in 8 days to operational losses. Is this excessive? Two Wildcats crashed on landing after tangling with Zeros near Milne Bay, as well as an SBD landing back on the carrier.

The only dumb question is the one that hasn't been asked.

So this is therapy, that is good since it will help repair the brain!

I repeat my advice:

Buy her (silk) flowers with those ribbons, buy or make her confections (if you want some easy recipes for things like fudge or truffles, let me know) not to mention her favorite adult beverage to go with such things, a card bought or homemade, plus the meal. Remind her that you love her but don't wait until Valentine's Day.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

Joe, does that mean Tulagi can draw supply from Lunga? I always thought the "adjacent" condition was when both hexes are attached by land, i.e. two bases adjacent to each other on coastal hexes. If I am hearing your correctly, the supply can be ported across from Lunga to Tulagi? If that is true it will ease my woes, somewhat.

Sorry for being dense. I'd rather answer a question and look stupid, rather than remain silent, appear smart but actually be dumb.

Just finished turn 8. I sent my carriers over towards Milne Bay. They overkilled [39 bomb and torpedo] hits on five Marus and a patrol boat, 100% sunk. They were trying to bring supplies/troops to Buna. If I can keep this up the 144th and supporting units on the Kokoda trail will be picking through Aussie dung for undigested corn niblets.

I'm loading up most of the 114th group at Luganville in an attempt to get them into Lunga so they can get to work on Henderson Field and the base. A bit later I will try to get the remainder of the 114th and an engineer unit over there. To cover them I am swinging the carriers back and will soon assemble an amphibious unit at Noumea to try what you guys have advised, a midnight drop and run.

Well, that is all for tonight. Going to hit the rack early and watch a film with the administration. I find I can get absorbed in a game to the exclusion of all else, so I have to make sure to schedule "us" time so she doesn't get resentful. Actually, she's rather pleased that I am tackling a game like this after my brain surgery. For two years afterwards I could not get into anything deep. No book reading for two years, which is tough on a guy like me who likes to get through 2-3 books a week when possible. I think she's pleased that I've bitten into something that challenges my intellect and planning. I still struggle with short term memory issues, so this game is a form of rehab for my brain.

Edit: P.S. I have lost 9 planes in 8 days to operational losses. Is this excessive? Two Wildcats crashed on landing after tangling with Zeros near Milne Bay, as well as an SBD landing back on the carrier.

The ports have to face each other across adjacent hexes and clear ocean hexside. The amount that moves across daily is limited by the size of the smallest port, and it flows automatically from less demand to higher demand. I think a level 1 port is about 50 points of supply daily.

EDIT: Op losses after combat cannot be helped, except by higher Pilot Experience which comes from ... combat! [:D]
Can't assess the level of ops losses without knowing a whole lot of stuff about how many missions flown, type, distance, how critical the mission is, etc. So as always "It depends".

The planes may also have been damaged so things like the wheels, flaps, and such don't go down. Not to mention the engine shot up, the Wildcat flies like a brick with a non-working engine.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you read about the "funny" ships, they abstracted those and a lot of the smaller ones are not actually represented in the game but their effects are probably represented by the movement of supplies and such across water from one base to another base.

There are two or three xAKLs that are "Banana Boats" - designed to get bananas to market before they ripened from Central America to USA. The fastest does something like 20 knots. Select the All Ships list, filter for xAK types and scan the speed listed for the xAKLs.

The ships actually look like they were converted from 4-piper destroyers.

You know those banana flip cakes? They were developed by someone who used the bananas that were to ripe to go to market to make them.

In his book "Angela's Ashes" (or the sequel " 'Tis", the Irish author writes about coming to the USA and starving until he got a job on the NYC docks. Much of his work was unloading bananas from the ships and much of his diet was spoiled bananas! He was alcoholic so his wages went to buying booze (even though he had a family in desperate need too).