Prince of Wales and Repulse

[nowherman]

Shouldn't the PoW and Repulse be at sea on the first turn of the Dec 7 41 scenario. I am curious if there is a game mechanic to explain why they aren't? It seems very difficult for the Japanese AI to sink one or both if they are both in port. Would having them at sea make it harder or easier for the Japanese to sink them?

[AlbertN]

I'd cut the issue and consider them already sank - not placing them at all in the game.
It may sound a bit iffy to some but as it is now 1-2 of these ships remain alive and escapes right off the bat to India!

[JWW]

I would say no. That should be a choice for the Allied player to make. Historically, they were in port when hostilities commenced and the Japanese staged their first air raid on Singapore, and were sent to sea afterwards. So let the Allied player decide, based on Axis opening moves, whether to use them to try to disrupt Japanese landings or to let them escape, if they are still afloat. I don't think one or two British battleships have much of an effect on the outcome if they do escape.

[nowherman]

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13

I would say no. That should be a choice for the Allied player to make. Historically, they were in port when hostilities commenced and the Japanese staged their first air raid on Singapore, and were sent to sea afterwards. So let the Allied player decide, based on Axis opening moves, whether to use them to try to disrupt Japanese landings or to let them escape, if they are still afloat. I don't think one or two British battleships have much of an effect on the outcome if they do escape.

I am used to WiTP and other pacific theater wargames which do have them at sea on the first turn, hence my question and confusion. I hadn't considered that they should start in port which does make more sense. I do think the point you make is spot on, the Allied player should make the decision with what to do with them. So the historical first turn should be: the Japanese bomb them ineffectively while they are in port on the Japanese turn, then, on the Allied turn, the Allies move them out of port to attack the Japanese transports, the Japanese intercept with air groups, two capital ships sink. That explanation satisfies my curiosity, thank you.

[AlbertN]

The point is that there is no 'sink Japanese shipping' pretty much.
There is no chance to catch Japan convoys or the like because Japan has no convoy lanes yet there and troops have moved on the spot, landed already and marching inland.

So it's "Japan bombs them in Port in Turn1. Surviving BBs have nothing to do, relocate to India".
There is no choice involved unless the choice is OptionB - Kamikaze Run against the IJN somewhere.

[JWW]

ORIGINAL: nowherman

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13

I would say no. That should be a choice for the Allied player to make. Historically, they were in port when hostilities commenced and the Japanese staged their first air raid on Singapore, and were sent to sea afterwards. So let the Allied player decide, based on Axis opening moves, whether to use them to try to disrupt Japanese landings or to let them escape, if they are still afloat. I don't think one or two British battleships have much of an effect on the outcome if they do escape.

I am used to WiTP and other pacific theater wargames which do have them at sea on the first turn, hence my question and confusion. I hadn't considered that they should start in port which does make more sense. I do think the point you make is spot on, the Allied player should make the decision with what to do with them. So the historical first turn should be: the Japanese bomb them ineffectively while they are in port on the Japanese turn, then, on the Allied turn, the Allies move them out of port to attack the Japanese transports, the Japanese intercept with air groups, two capital ships sink. That explanation satisfies my curiosity, thank you.

I've actually done exactly what you describe, i.e., the historical outcome, in beta games, mainly just to experiment and see what would happen if I sortied the two ships to take on fleet elements supporting Japanese landings. I've ended up losing both ships, and sometimes not, with them making it to Australia. Naval outcomes are never a sure thing in the game. And I've actually sunk some Japanese ships in the process a few times. But the best option I think for the Allied player is to get them out of harm's way if possible so they can live to fight another day, because you will likely have a historical outcome if you try to take on the Japanese in the first turn.