Fair Theft?

[Lobster]

Things like this make me wonder why anyone would even bother devoting large blocks of their life creating scenarios. Certainly is news to me that as an author you have no rights over your own creation:

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

I remember we had someone some years back "updating" all MB scenario. Updating in so far that they were loaded and saved so that they were playable right away in TOAWIV. At least I have now Version 4.0, while officially 3.7 was afaik the latest.

A tweaked & fixed version would indeed be interesting, but here we have the same problem as back then. Discussion started if it was allowed to modify the scenario without the designers permission. Not sure if the thread was removed, at least I can't find it anymore.

While it may be a nice gesture to "get" designer permission to modify their scenarios, it is not
"illegal" in any way. Fair Use Doctrine. The scenario police aren't going to come knocking on your door, and if they or Matrix or whomever tried to sue or enjoin you from doing so, they would be laughed out of (American) courts.

Source: law reader for over 20 years at Baron & Budd PC and Arter Hadden PC.

ORIGINAL: Lobster

If I recall it had something to do with Matrix. But he (Daniel McBride) did indeed deny anyone the right to post his scenarios years ago. Maybe he changed his mind by now?

Edit: Rugged Defense agreed to his wishes and removed his scenarios.

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith

ORIGINAL: Lobster

If I recall it had something to do with Matrix. But he did indeed deny anyone the right to post his scenarios years ago. Maybe he changed his mind by now?

He does not have that right. Fair Use doctrine.

[golden delicious]

Legally I think it would be extremely hard to go after someone for publishing an edited version of a scenario without the original author's permission. The key thing here is that there is no revenue involved; no-one to my knowledge has ever paid for a TOAW scenario, other than as bundled with a new release of the game. As such it would fall under fair use just the same as if I posted a photograph I found on Google Images.

However, as I've said elsewhere, I think it's very clearly morally wrong to republish someone else's substantial work without seeking permission (or if permission is refused), even if credit is properly given. As the community is quite small, I'd suggest to any designers affected by this that they could simply make a post to explain their position and it should have the necessary effect.

Here, I'm speaking as someone who's been on both sides of this- having adapted Jeremy MacDonald's Fall Grau and also having had Silvanski convert my rather sketchy Alternative World War II scenario into Trotsky's War. In both cases, the original designer's permission was sought and obtained.

[Zovs]

So what if you can't contact the author?

I really don't see it as that big of a deal. I am pretty sure that Norm created some of the original scenarios and some of the folks that did some of the scenarios in 1998 and 2003 have moved on and who knows if they are still alive or if they just moved on to other things.

As long as someone gives credit I don't think its as "evil" as some are suggesting.

Now if someone took an existing scenario and changed its name and took credit for it that would be wrong. But modifying a scenario with our with out the authors "permission" and putting on the web for others to play is okay and not a big deal.

[Curtis Lemay]

Certainly anyone can mod any scenario however they like for their own personal use.

Posting it on one of the depositories is kind of sketchy, though. I had someone do that with CFNA who had only modded the colors of the black shirt units. [:'(]

But, having the scenario included in any TOAW release would require a higher standard (as the designers of FITE can attest).

[Lobster]

Like you said Zovs, if you've made every effort to contact the original scenario designer you've done all you can. I'd wager the majority can't be contacted when it comes to older scenarios. So no, it's not a bad thing to update their scenario. I'd put thier name as the original designer right after the title so there is no mistake. However, there is nothing stopping anyone from doing anything they want. I won't use a scenario that someone has modified against the original authors permission. I would not take a scenario made by someone active on the forum and modify that without their permission. That would be a kick in the teeth.

I just hope everyone is on the same page when it comes to respecting the work, sometimes measured in years, people put into these scenarios.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

So what if you can't contact the author?

"without seeking permission (or if permission is refused)"

i.e. if you try and you can't get hold of the person then that's too bad for the designer. Most designers include an email address and those that don't can be Googled. For my part I use the same email address I was on in 2002 so it's pretty easy to get hold of me.

[76mm]

I'm not a copyright lawyer but don't believe that modifying a scenario would actually fall within "Fair Use" doctrine, which is more intended for use in reviews, parodies, etc. Modifying a scenario, on the other hand, is more like taking someone's novel, changing some bits, maybe adding a chapter or two, and then distributing it. Not the same IMHO.

That said, as others have pointed out, as long as you're distributing it for free, it is hard to imagine ending up in court for this kind of thing, since it seems a designer would be hard-pressed to show damages for unauthorized use of his own free scenario.

I agree with those that say that you should make a best-efforts attempt to contact the developer seeking their permission, but if they can't be reached after a good-faith effort, then I'd say go ahead.

[golden delicious]

It sounds like we're largely in violent agreement on this one.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

It sounds like we're largely in violent agreement on this one.

[:D]

[Lobster]

Not to mention that there are literally hundreds of old scenarios that would have to be modified to work properly with TOAWIV

[Zovs]

Well that is the point. I have modified around 30 or so, plus I made 20 graphic only updates to some of the stock scenarios. But it seems that Bob would be opposed to having them in TOAW. So they will sit on my HDD and no one will really get to see or play them I guess...except for me, but where is the fun in that lol...

Anyway back to JTS for now...

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Well that is the point. I have modified around 30 or so, plus I made 20 graphic only updates to some of the stock scenarios. But it seems that Bob would be opposed to having them in TOAW. So they will sit on my HDD and no one will really get to see or play them I guess...except for me, but where is the fun in that lol...

I would consider "personal use" to extend to playing PBEM, for what it's worth.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Well that is the point. I have modified around 30 or so, plus I made 20 graphic only updates to some of the stock scenarios. But it seems that Bob would be opposed to having them in TOAW. So they will sit on my HDD and no one will really get to see or play them I guess...except for me, but where is the fun in that lol...

Anyway back to JTS for now...

Are you aware of this sale? https://john-tiller-software.myshopify. ... 9049f86848

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Well that is the point. I have modified around 30 or so, plus I made 20 graphic only updates to some of the stock scenarios. But it seems that Bob would be opposed to having them in TOAW. So they will sit on my HDD and no one will really get to see or play them I guess...except for me, but where is the fun in that lol...

Anyway back to JTS for now...

I didn't say that.

[Zovs]

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Well that is the point. I have modified around 30 or so, plus I made 20 graphic only updates to some of the stock scenarios. But it seems that Bob would be opposed to having them in TOAW. So they will sit on my HDD and no one will really get to see or play them I guess...except for me, but where is the fun in that lol...

Anyway back to JTS for now...

Are you aware of this sale? https://john-tiller-software.myshopify. ... 9049f86848

Yes I picked up 23 titles. There are still 24 titles I want to get but not this year.

[Zovs]

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Well that is the point. I have modified around 30 or so, plus I made 20 graphic only updates to some of the stock scenarios. But it seems that Bob would be opposed to having them in TOAW. So they will sit on my HDD and no one will really get to see or play them I guess...except for me, but where is the fun in that lol...

Anyway back to JTS for now...

I didn't say that.

Well at one point I can upload my color only mods and the other 20 to 30 mods and people can do what they want with them. I think I turned some really good scenarios into really great scenarios by several of the things I posted elsewhere.

I give full credit to each original designer and clearly mark up my changes as (I am on good terms with Trey and I am sure he would not mind, but I'll re-contact him again):

CHANGE LOG

Version 3.0
12/12/2020 - by Don Lazov
- Converted to TOAW IV
- Updated and reformatted Scenario Briefing
- Corrected all the spelling and grammatical errors.
- Created new color file for counters
- Modified the color of the counters to be more like board war game counters
- Made some slight adjustments to some of the unit's icon symbols and backgrounds
- Adjusted all Supply Points for both sides to come into alignment with new TOAW IV supply rules
- Added and adjusted Supply Points
- Added Attrition Divider and Max Rounds Per Battle
- Made some very minor road and rail changes for ascetics
- Changed map text for all Nations to use the new larger sized fonts
- Changed map text for all rivers, lakes, and seas to use the blue font
- Added to the map the new icon for Capitals

Version 2.3
- Trey Marshall
- For version Vol III v3.0.0.0
* Added VPs in addition to the Berlin capture Instant Death. A draw will constitute a front line along the West Wall and Brenner Pass. To get an Allied victory, Allies must capture significant German cities and capture of Berlin is an Instant Allied Major Victory.
* Turns were decreased to 102 turns which is May 1st which was when the Germans unconditionally surrendered, and Berlin fell to the Russians. The Western Allies are now on a timetable to beat the Russians to Berlin.
* Some fortification lines in Italy were redrawn
* Completely redone StuG Brigades - should now be more historical
* German Home Reserve divisions were given static orders so they cannot be used until the Allies near the German border.
* German air transport points were buffed up just enough to allow them to drop one airborne regiment.
* Added Italian Partisans
* Fixed some German reentry hexes
* Overhaul of Commonwealth forces as well as added some German and other Allied forces
* Added beginning Axis Replacements and a large pool of replacements that filter in on Turn 18 to replicate German Feldersatz Units in each division
* Made Rhine River unfordable
* Reduced German Loss Intolerance to 25%. This will reduce Allied VPs for destroying German units to 25%. Germans will not have to worry about losses as much as the Allies from a VP standpoint.
* Allies may choose their invasion beaches with the Theatre Options on Turn 1.
* Allied supply points along the Atlantic will not appear until the Allies capture the ports and/or when the ports are repaired.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Well that is the point. I have modified around 30 or so, plus I made 20 graphic only updates to some of the stock scenarios. But it seems that Bob would be opposed to having them in TOAW. So they will sit on my HDD and no one will really get to see or play them I guess...except for me, but where is the fun in that lol...

Anyway back to JTS for now...

Are you aware of this sale? https://john-tiller-software.myshopify. ... 9049f86848

Yes I picked up 23 titles. There are still 24 titles I want to get but not this year.

Holy carp. Good job. [:D]

My favorite Panzer Campaign title is Moscow 42. Normandy for Panzer Battles. I have the two Strategic War titles but not done much with them.

Was thinking of doing a knock off of one of the Moscow 42 scenarios. Not sure.

[Zovs]

I have both the strategic they are ok but don’t capture me like Panzer Campaign and CW and Nappy ones do. I have one PB the North Africa one it’s pretty awesome.

Really getting into both the Nappy and CW ones. Moscow 42 is one I don’t have yet I have most of the rest of the PzC series (ie sans 5).

[Lobster]

You have to get Moscow 42. It has Typhoon and late 41/early 42 plus the Moscow 42 what if.

[Rescue193]

Oh dear!

Copyright, copyright law, is such a murky multi-jurisdictional minefield its hard to know where to begin.

Broadly speaking, if an author designs a scenario using (whatever version of) TOAW software to be played on TOAW software and then publishes that scenario (in whatever form) as "free to use" then obviously anyone can use, and amend, said scenario as they choose. However, the copyright of the scenario remains with the original author.

If the second author (I'll call him or her the "updater" to simplify the syntax) publishes a new, different, version of the scenario as "free to use", acknowledges the work of the original author (out of politeness if nothing else) then the "updater" is on pretty safe ground.

The problems arise if the "updater" publishes amendments to an "original scenario" included with the game without the copyright holders permission, or publishes an amended version of another author's work, passing off as his own or seeking benefit or reward from so doing. Then you're messing with copyright infringement and/or copyright theft. But at that point you're getting into serious "lawyer-billing" territory and I doubt if there is sufficient reward to be had in arguing over a TOAW scenario to make such shenanigans worthwhile.

Personally, I've been tinkering a with a specific TOAW scenario for a few years and I've tweaked OOBs, corrected stuff that was just plain wrong and incorporated various bits and pieces of graphics that, to my mind, make it better. In the unlikely event I ever get to the point that I want to share what I've done, I'll make every reasonable attempt to seek the original author's permission, before I post my version of "his" scenario. It won't be mine, merely my version of the thing "he" created.

I'm not sure where the concept of "Free Use Doctrine" falls within all this. I doubt that updating a scenario from version X to version Y could be considered an heinous crime providing the "updater" didn't claim authorship of the original scenario - that would be like a translator claiming credit for writing the original novel. I guess that, as with most things, the law follows the money. Here, I would hope, that good manners would follow respect for the efforts of the original author.