DaBabes vs DaBigBabes vs LST's Bottlenecks vs Andy Mac: Which do you prefer?

[Tanaka]

Playing my first PBEM (boy am I learning a lot!) using And Mac's Updated Scen 1 with the Bellum Pacifica map and thinking of what my next future PBEM will be...since I will be eventually switching over to Andrew Brown's extended map updates I am looking at the DaBabes scenarios...

Sort of a PBEM poll here for Vets:

Andy Mac's Scen 1 seems to be the best to play against the AI and seems to have the most up to date fixes? So do you prefer Andy Mac's Scen 1 or I am assuming that...

Do most of you play DaBigBabes C (highly modified LCU's, TOEs, OOBs, reduced naval and aviation support) (extended map and reduced cargos) with the stacking limits (I found supply to be really difficult) or is DaBigBabes B (no reduced cargo)with stacking limits preferred for less difficulty and complexity?

In other words is DaBigBabes C considered the best way to play WITPAE by vets or is this too extreme/difficult and DaBabes A/B(standard map AI possible) or DaBigBabes B (extended map with stacking limits but no cargo reduction) preferred? (I'm assuming extended map and stacking limits are preferred by vets?).

Or do you prefer the deluxe complexity of the even further modded DaBigBabes C LST's Bottlenecks in the Pacific?

Andy Mac: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4692890

DaBabes/DaBigBabes: https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswitpae/home

LST's Bottlenecks: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4262848

[rockmedic109]

I am playing DaBigBabes B. I have not played C. I have not played as Japan. I have gotten to 1945 playing B. I like it.

I cannot say what the effects of C will be. I think there would be enough allied sealift to move supplies but I am not sure there would be enough APA for large scale invasions that I think would be needed in Japan, Okinawa, Marianas and Iwo. Iwo might not be needed and the Philippines should have enough shoreline to pick a spot. I am also not sure how reduced aviation support would play out. I'd hate to get into 1944 and find I don't have enough air support for a bombing campaign. With the brain trust involved in dababes, I imagine it is not a problem.

[dr.hal]

I'm engaged in DaBabes scenario 28 which uses the extended map and reduced cargo. I think the extended map is a great change as it allows for a few key geopolitical realities to be realized that the original map missed. Although the reduced cargo is supposed to slow the game down, I've not seen it as the Japanese player, however it's early days yet (mid Feb '42) and it might have a biting impact later on. Overall however, I really like this scenario.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

I'm engaged in DaBabes scenario 28 which uses the extended map and reduced cargo. I think the extended map is a great change as it allows for a few key geopolitical realities to be realized that the original map missed. Although the reduced cargo is supposed to slow the game down, I've not seen it as the Japanese player, however it's early days yet (mid Feb '42) and it might have a biting impact later on. Overall however, I really like this scenario.

That's 28-C. My favorite also!

[USSAmerica]

Stock Scenario 1 here. It's the only one I've played in PBEM, other than a few trips through the Guadalcanal scenario.

[kbfchicago]

indirectly...DaBabes, I play a modified LST's Bottlenecks which is based on DaBabes with his adjustments. LST introduces allot of smaller units and some additional historical units. I've updated LST's startup. LST tweeted his start for rapid play, I prefer more historical start and randomly delayed mobilization of merchant ships (both sides). It actually also serves the purpose of making the initial turns easier, just in a different way. LST pre-positioned ships for easy assignment of initial orders. I slow the introduction of civilian merchants ships over the course of about 90-120 days. Reflecting for IJ the arming of merchants (no data, but my assumption is not every Japanese merchant ship was armed on 7 Dec 41....). Allied ships, which don't start armed, would have needed time to be mobilized, receive orders, et.al. Delays are shorter for ships in the immediate war zone (e.g. Philippines) and IJ mobilizes very quickly over the first couple of weeks. I also flattened some later mobilizations, spreading them out over time. Larger ships get mobilized before smaller ones (generally, some exceptions). Result is the first turn pain is spread out over the first 90 days or so. Again, no historical data to support this but as a guy who prefers to push the game to recognize historical constraints (where I can), I like it.


Also... I put (significantly) more ships out at sea, reflecting the civilian world was not "in port" on 7 Dec, but carrying on with their business as usual. It's been awhile since I did my last adjustment but I think I used all the available (initial setup) TFs for both sides...so lots of ships at sea.

[Lowpe]

In general I like the mods that attempt to slow the pacing of the game down, even tried Asian Roads modifier to dababes.

Having completed a handful of pbems to the end, it is the players that determine the pacing, the mods not so much effect.

So pretty much now I pick just choose whether I want to play a scenario 1 or 2 type game, and don't care as much whether it is stock or not - often it comes down to my opponent selecting.

As Japan I prefer the great challenge of a Scenario 1 game. As the Allies, giving Japan the Scenario 2 benefits seems to work ok.

Against the AI, Nasty, Nasty.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

That's 28-C. My favorite also!

+1 on this for me

[JanSako]

LST's Bottlenecks in the Pacific for me. (Based on DBB-c but even better!)

I am starting an SP campaign of Nasty Nasty too... I wonder how much over the top it will be.

[Tanaka]

Ok so far DaBigBabes C and modified DaBigBabes C (LST's Bottlenecks) seem to be the top choice.

Looking at Bottlenecks it does seem to be even more intense than DaBigBabes C! Woah!

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4262848

[castor troy]

Been playing DaBigBabes scen 28 extended map ever since release

[Yaab]

Updated stock scenarios (001 and 007) all the way.

RHS mod is also great, however it is still unfinished.

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Updated stock scenarios (001 and 007) all the way.

RHS mod is also great, however it is still unfinished.

I don't think Sid will ever finish the mod....GP

[Tanaka]

So you guys got me interested in checking out LST's Bottlenecks mod as well:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4262848

Lots of interesting stuff and changes here. I had a chuckle because so much fuss was raised over my forum question if Sonia's could dive bomb and I see he changed it in his mod so that they can:

4. The KI-51 is now a dive bomber with "Attack bomber" ability and armor even for the A model - the plane has been designed as ground attack airplane for both low-level and dive bombing. However, in the game anything lighter than 100kg bombs is pretty ineffective against troops in terrain other than "clear", and no Allied player worth his salt will keep troops in the open as long as Japan has air superiority. Best use for the Ki-51 and similar light bombers is hitting airfields or ports in order to prevent fort construction.

Don't understand why so much ruckus was made over the question if the Sonia really was a dive bomber?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Ki-51

Wonder why it was not made so in the base game?

[Yaab]

I think it has to do with how the code handles dive bombing.

Download RHS mod, where Sonias and a host of other bombers are dive bombers, and watch how they mince-meat the Chinese sampan fleet and the UK destroyers off HK on turn one. With some training, Japanese have a murderous horde of IJA dive bombers.

The best compromise was the glide-bombing feature, which alas was disabled somewhere in year 2012 or 2013.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Yaab

I think it has to do with how the code handles dive bombing.

Download RHS mod, where Sonias and a host of other bombers are dive bombers, and watch how they mince-meat the Chinese sampan fleet and the UK destroyers off HK on turn one. With some training, Japanese have a murderous horde of IJA dive bombers.

The best compromise was the glide-bombing feature, which alas was disabled somewhere in year 2012 or 2013.

Ah very interesting thanks!