Ship Upgrades?

[abulbulian]

I'm wondering why some of my CS ships are not upgrading. They are in a port with a large ship building cap, have upgrade on for the ship and the upgrade date is 2 months prior to the current date. What am I missing?

Also, the port (in Japan) has plenty of each resource type.

thanks

[Admiral DadMan]

Japan has to use specific ports for that. If no one else answers, I'll dig it out when I get home.

[LargeSlowTarget]

"Upgrade" means changing the weapons carried without changing the basic ship type and its characteristics. They usually have a minimum size (repair) shipyard requirement which is shown on the ship's detail window and the base must have enough supplies.

Not to be confused with "conversion" which usually means changing the ship type - for example CS Chitose and Chiyoda converting to CVL. There are also minimum (repair) shipyard size and supply requirements to observe, shown on
the ship details page. Usually any port fitting the requirements will do, except for said Chitose and Chiyoda - their conversion must take place at Tokyo.

To add confusion, some "upgrades" do actually include a conversion - if it is the case, it is indicated in the upgrade option.

[dr.hal]

I believe Jap CSs when converting to CVLs must do so at Tokyo and must have a certain shipyard size which I believe means Tokyo needs to be expanded a bit. Also it can only be done after a certain date. I'll double check with the manual.

[Mike Solli]

Yep, CS conversion to CVL must be in Tokyo and Tokyo's shipyard must be a minimum size of 50.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Yep, CS conversion to CVL must be in Tokyo and Tokyo's shipyard must be a minimum size of 50.

My last game as Japan that got that far, which was DDB-C Scen 28, I converted CS to CVL in Osaka, without expanding any shipyard.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Yep, CS conversion to CVL must be in Tokyo and Tokyo's shipyard must be a minimum size of 50.

My last game as Japan that got that far, which was DDB-C Scen 28, I converted CS to CVL in Osaka, without expanding any shipyard.

IIRC, you can do that with CS Mizuho, but not Chitose or Chiyoda.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Yep, CS conversion to CVL must be in Tokyo and Tokyo's shipyard must be a minimum size of 50.

My last game as Japan that got that far, which was DDB-C Scen 28, I converted CS to CVL in Osaka, without expanding any shipyard.

IIRC, you can do that with CS Mizuho, but not Chitose or Chiyoda.

I just opened up an old turn from 7/43. I have NISSHIN, CHIYODA, and CHITOSE all upgrading to CVL in Kobe. I can post photo if you like, but based on my experience you do NOT have to make this conversion in Tokyo.

Maybe Kobe is also a "National Base"?

[Mike Solli]

Interesting, Q-Ball. There's no need to post anything. I checked the rule book and there was no mention of the Tokyo requirement for CS to CVL conversions. Maybe a vestige of the old WitP? Maybe a patch change? No clue.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Interesting, Q-Ball. There's no need to post anything. I checked the rule book and there was no mention of the Tokyo requirement for CS to CVL conversions. Maybe a vestige of the old WitP? Maybe a patch change? No clue.

Maybe it was an old rule, but Japanese players can save the shipyard expansion in Tokyo...it's not needed

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Interesting, Q-Ball. There's no need to post anything. I checked the rule book and there was no mention of the Tokyo requirement for CS to CVL conversions. Maybe a vestige of the old WitP? Maybe a patch change? No clue.

Maybe it was an old rule, but Japanese players can save the shipyard expansion in Tokyo...it's not needed

Yep, I may just turn it off in my game. Wasted supply.

[LargeSlowTarget]

I just made a test with Scen 1, changing the start date to Dec 7 1943 and setting Chitose to be in port at Tokyo, Chiyoda starts in port at Hiroshima, both to upgrade on 11/1942 to CVL, then saving as Scen 51.

Running one turn, only Chitose at Tokyo entered the upgrade, Chiyoda at Hiroshima is still available for duty.

Ran a few more turns, no change. Note that Hiroshima repair yard is 100 and Tokyo is 10.

So it looks like the specific location "Tokyo" is still valid for Chitose and Chiyoda, but the 50 repair yard requirement is no longer valid.

Game version v1.8.11.26b(latest beta).

Don Bowen -> RE: CS to CVL Conversion Help (1/4/2012 6:14:37 AM)

ORIGINAL: Puhis

This conversion thing is really silly. Historically they were converted at Yokosuka and Sasebo, and in this game player have to substantially expand Tokyo's small repair yard to make it happen. And there's no way new player can know that some of the conversions are hard coded...

As I recall, this particular limitation was put in late in the development cycle as a plug for a cheat that was showing up in games. The limitation is:

Any conversion that changes the type of a ship TO a capital ship FROM a non-capital ship must be done in the national home port. Capital ship means carriers and battleships.

The cheat was to perform such conversions at remote outposts, where facilities for such a complex conversion would obviously not be available. Also some older WITP games had laughable conversions (like AK to CV) that we wanted to restrict. We had originally thought that the shipyard size limitation was sufficent to control such conversions but there was apparently some remaining issue (don't recall exactly what) that led to this decision. Might have been scenario mods that increased shipyard capacity at some locations.

The underlying assumption was that the facilites would only be available in the homeland and at a major building/repair site. Note that the AE dvelopment team went to great lengths to NOT use literals for bases (or other things) unless absolutely necessary, so the only reasonable choice was a national home port.

Unfortunately the decision and change were made after the manual was "frozen". We weren't all that concerned as the only two historical conversions that would be affected were Chitose and Chiyoda.

Anyway, that's why. Don't think it is going to change now, so I'd recommend adapting to it.

[Q-Ball]

To LST, I thought that as well, but I definitely coverted CHITOSE, CHIYODA, and NISSHIN at Kobe, not Tokyo.

I bet Kobe is also considered a National Port, which is why it works there.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

To LST, I thought that as well, but I definitely coverted CHITOSE, CHIYODA, and NISSHIN at Kobe, not Tokyo.

I bet Kobe is also considered a National Port, which is why it works there.

Are you by any chance playing a mod?

[LargeSlowTarget]

Well Q-Ball, I just made another test with Chitose switched to Kobe - no joy, both Chitose at Kobe and Chiyoda at Hiroshima do not enter the yards for their 11/42 upgrade which converts them to CVL.

You talk about a "conversion" - in stock scenario 1, only Nisshin and Mizuho convert to CVL, Chitose and Chiyoda have an upgrade that changes them into CVL. Can you please verify the scenario you are playing?

[jdsrae]

This is from scenario 1.
The 1 Nov 42 CS to CVL upgrade for the Chitose class needs Tokyo to have a size 50 repair shipyard.

Another tip, if the air group is on the ship it will auto convert to 1x F and 1x TB unit.
I assume if they are on land they will stay as 2x FP units.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Well Q-Ball, I just made another test with Chitose switched to Kobe - no joy, both Chitose at Kobe and Chiyoda at Hiroshima do not enter the yards for their 11/42 upgrade which converts them to CVL.

You talk about a "conversion" - in stock scenario 1, only Nisshin and Mizuho convert to CVL, Chitose and Chiyoda have an upgrade that changes them into CVL. Can you please verify the scenario you are playing?

I am playing DDB-C, Scenario 28, so there could be a difference between those files and Stock 1 with regard to those ships. In fact, sounds like there has to be if both of you in Scen 1 have to convert in Tokyo. Interesting....

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Another tip, if the air group is on the ship it will auto convert to 1x F and 1x TB unit.
I assume if they are on land they will stay as 2x FP units.

That is a correct assumption. I made that mistake in my old PBEM and never got the F or TB unit for the CVLs. I did get to keep the FP units. [8|]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Well Q-Ball, I just made another test with Chitose switched to Kobe - no joy, both Chitose at Kobe and Chiyoda at Hiroshima do not enter the yards for their 11/42 upgrade which converts them to CVL.

You talk about a "conversion" - in stock scenario 1, only Nisshin and Mizuho convert to CVL, Chitose and Chiyoda have an upgrade that changes them into CVL. Can you please verify the scenario you are playing?

I am playing DDB-C, Scenario 28, so there could be a difference between those files and Stock 1 with regard to those ships. In fact, sounds like there has to be if both of you in Scen 1 have to convert in Tokyo. Interesting....

Ahh. I'll let you know when we get to that point in our game.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

Another tip, if the air group is on the ship it will auto convert to 1x F and 1x TB unit.
I assume if they are on land they will stay as 2x FP units.

THIS I did not know! Good to know! The Empire doesn't need more floatplane units (though I use alot to cover every patch of water I can...)

Do they convert immediately? If so, you can actually take them off the ships and use them right away (or at least have plenty of time to train the pilots up)