How important is maneuverability

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gravyten
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:05 am

How important is maneuverability

Post by gravyten »

With firing arcs I think it would be important if one of my ships could get behind the other one and just keep blasting at it. How helpful are victor engines. The hybrid one might be good
tehferretstrikes
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:10 pm

Re: How important is maneuverability

Post by tehferretstrikes »

So, this isn't a good answer, but I've been having a discussion on discord and they seem to think the engines are fairly useless as they do not actually increase maneuverability. I would love someone to prove me wrong.


"Ships are currently unable to maneuver sufficiently in close combat scenarios. Most small ship designs have exclusively front facing weapon loadouts but cannot use them effectively at short ranges because they can not turn quickly enough to get on target. Almost all ships end up having the same turn rate, even up till late game."
https://discord.com/channels/8115849768 ... 4867931266
OrnluWolfjarl
Posts: 320
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:36 pm

Re: How important is maneuverability

Post by OrnluWolfjarl »

In my experience, turning rate seems to only matter in combat, due to the fire angles of different turrents. Firing all your weapons vs half of them means you are putting out twice the damage. Ships seem to understand this and will try to move in ways that give all their turrets a chance to fire at a single target (when stationary they look like funny pendulums).

Maneuvering also gives you a countermeasures bonus.
tehferretstrikes wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:08 pm So, this isn't a good answer, but I've been having a discussion on discord and they seem to think the engines are fairly useless as they do not actually increase maneuverability. I would love someone to prove me wrong.


"Ships are currently unable to maneuver sufficiently in close combat scenarios. Most small ship designs have exclusively front facing weapon loadouts but cannot use them effectively at short ranges because they can not turn quickly enough to get on target. Almost all ships end up having the same turn rate, even up till late game."
https://discord.com/channels/8115849768 ... 4867931266
Hybrid engines do give you maneuvering speed. They just won't give you as much as a dedicated maneuvering thruster. The reason they are a viable (and sometimes even a great) option is that the maneuvering speed they give you will offset the penalty to maneuvering you'd get from the bulk of a ship (so it appears that you don't really gain much maneuvering). They also give you the flat countermeasures bonus you'd normally get from thrusters. A big negative is that they have bulk 24. At their tech level, they have their uses.

In general though, I'd agree with the sentiment that ships end up all having the same turn rates. I'd rather see Engine hardpoints increase in number and then split them up into Main Thruster slots and Maneuvering Thruster slots (e.g. 25-size slots and 10-size slots).
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R_TEAM
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:37 am
Location: Germany

Re: How important is maneuverability

Post by R_TEAM »

Hard to tell without many tests with diff ships/designs ...
but ....
At first , a more smart AI to not fly stright in close front of an enemy will help to get better options to manuever - actual many ships dont care over weapon range and fly as close as possible to the enemys .. .... .....
Then it is a question, if the time between shots (shots per second) a limit here ...
If the ship need as example 10 sec to turn - and the main weapon need 11 sec between shots - then the sip can easy turn between shots - and so the turn rate is in no way important ...
"Actual" from my observation i would say ... it is much less important as i would expect ....
But this observation is from so many "bad AI behavor" superimposed .... it is really hard to tell ...
zgrssd
Posts: 5101
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

Re: How important is maneuverability

Post by zgrssd »

I install a maximum of 1 Vectoring engine for the following cases:
1. This is a combat ship. In that case I want the countermeasures bonus, to add to the hull bonus and the one from any Jammers
2. I need to remove a engine to save weight. Then 1 vectoring engine as repalcement/weight saving.

Accordingly I see no use for hybrid engines or multiple vectoring engines.
Velk
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2022 8:09 am

Re: How important is maneuverability

Post by Velk »

With the current ship AI, vector engines appear to be completely useless. This is mostly due to lack of momentum - turning is irrelevant when aggressive ships close to ramming distance and then instantly stop dead rather than 'jousting'.

On the other side, the AI is competent at kiting when the ship is set to cautious and long range heavy. This is another hit against vector, because every vector engine you have is another chunk of straight line speed you can't make up for when either kiting or pursuing.
zgrssd
Posts: 5101
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:02 pm

Re: How important is maneuverability

Post by zgrssd »

Velk wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:07 am With the current ship AI, vector engines appear to be completely useless. This is mostly due to lack of momentum - turning is irrelevant when aggressive ships close to ramming distance and then instantly stop dead rather than 'jousting'.

On the other side, the AI is competent at kiting when the ship is set to cautious and long range heavy. This is another hit against vector, because every vector engine you have is another chunk of straight line speed you can't make up for when either kiting or pursuing.
I would still pick one Vector Engine, for the Countermeasures Bonus.
That one is hard to source from anywhere else.
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