Barbarossa in 1942?

[kklemmick]

So far, almost every game I have played as the allies my opponent attacks the USSR in 1942. Sometimes I can take credit for this by forcing them into delaying actions in Norway, Greece, Africa, etc., but most of the time it's mostly because they want to use the extra year to insure the Middle East is taken, as well as invading England. This strategy is almost always effective up until '42, and then the Germans hit a steel wall in Russia.

I, on the other hand, will attack in 1941 no matter what I end up sending to that front. They are so weak in '41 that even with a handful of units I can usually destroy a good number of their corps without many losses. I think the worst attack I made had like 4 armor units and 10 infantry and I still ended up causing significant damage.

By June 1942 the USSR can max out their logistics, as well as upgrade every armor and mech corps to current tech. IMHO, it is extremely difficult to even dent them with that lineup.

My question is: Has anyone actually seen the strategy of waiting til 1942 work? I'm really curious if so.

I've only played one game to the end as the Allies, and in this game the Russians completely destroyed the Germans on the eastern front. It was pretty trivial to take back England, and while the Middle East proved harder, it was completely doable.

I kinda like the idea of giving the Germans this option, but as far as I can tell, if they don't attack in '41, they have already lost the game. Change my mind!

Kevin

[stjeand]

If the computer waits till 42 then yes they have lost.

Against an opponent it is extremely rare for them to wait due to the issues that the Russians will pose with a larger force.
Then again their early troops are terrible and the Germans will have 20 to 30 armored units to tear through them.

It has been a LONG time since I tried a 42 attack on Russia.

[sveint]

My question is: Has anyone actually seen the strategy of waiting til 1942 work? I'm really curious if so.

Remember, the Axis only have to survive and win by victory points. A defensive strategy can be very powerful for the Axis.
Of course most players just keep attacking for far too long.

[ncc1701e]

Remember, the Axis only have to survive and win by victory points. A defensive strategy can be very powerful for the Axis.
Of course most players just keep attacking for far too long.

I agree. If end of 1942 the USSR has survived, the Axis manpower and experience are still so high that you can win with a good defense in depth. Destroying and weakening the Red army with plenty of local counter attacks is feasible.

[generalfdog]

i have done a 42 Barbarossa successfully before the key is you have to accomplish alot if you are not going in 42 because as you say USSR is stronger but presumably you will be also and have less concerns in the middle east and elsewhere,

[kklemmick]

Well, of all the games I've played, the one I'm in currently with jwalkin is about the best I've seen the Germans do with a '1942 attack. They've advanced maybe a total of 5 hexes into the USSR, with moderate (but acceptable) Russian losses so far. Meanwhile the Brits have nearly retaken mainland England, and the Allies are pushing into Iraq from the Persian Gulf. I will post a screen shot next time I do a turn, because this is definitely one of the more interesting games I've played, but I can't say I'm the least bit worried for the long term prospects of the allies.

[kklemmick]

Here's the situation in my game with jwalkin. This was a weird game though because the Germans built a lot of armor and air, and didn't bulk up their army with infantry like I usually do. Consequently my strategy was to attack everywhere all at once and overwhelm him. Seems to be working so far.
Note the remnant's of the German invasion of the UK surrounded and out of supply, while the US has landed in Normandy, Iraq and Egypt. UK invaded Norway. USSR has invaded Persia, Bulgaria, Turkey and Finland, lol. The German invasion from Persia is completely out of supply and on the run.

I'm curious how this game goes, but I don't think it's looking good for the Axis, unless they're able to bulk up their army more, or pull back to more defensive positions. This is August 1942 BTW.

Not pictured is an interesting tactic he's using to keep me from using the naval loops: Park a sub on both loop origins in the Atlantic. I've not figured out a good way to counter this just yet.

[AlvaroSousa]

That's cheesy parking on the naval loops. I will remedy that next patch.

[canuckgamer]

In our PBEM game, the Axis will not be invading the USSR until 1942 because it they did not conquer France until late fall 1940 rather than declaring Vichy. The Allies than sent a significant force to western Africa with the Axis countering with significant land and air. It is now the mid May 41 and the Axis have finally advanced in to Morocco and conquered Yugoslavia.
One aspect of delaying Barbarossa that has not been commented on is the impact of VPs. The USSR including Riga has 6 VPs so the invasion is delayed until May 42 that is 20 plus turns where the USSR is getting those VPs. I am wondering if this a factor in determining the who wins the game?
Also, what is the significance of taking Petsamo from the Finns?

[AlvaroSousa]

Sub base, supply port

[kklemmick]

Also, what is the significance of taking Petsamo from the Finns?

For the game above, simply to draw off more of his units. Unfortunately I screwed up my invasion so it was all for nothing.