SP Rocket Launcher - Ground Element Type only perform in Urban combat

[Wiedrock]

Similar to the before reported HT Mortar issue. Either they are limited to only start shooting their Main armament at close ranges or they have 99.99% of their shots blocked when not fighting in Urban areas.

[Joel Billings]

Ok, I spoke with Gary re this and the HT mortars, and at this point it's something we'll have to have Pavel try to look at. Do you have any saves you can attach or send to 2by3@2by3games.com I can give Pavel that has these weapons involved? Luckily there are only about 2000 of these elements in a long campaign, but I'm sure the Germans would like to have these weapons firing at long range. The fort issue should be a bit easier to figure out and fix than these range issues. Thanks for all the reports.

[Wiedrock]

Ok, I spoke with Gary re this and the HT mortars, and at this point it's something we'll have to have Pavel try to look at. Do you have any saves you can attach or send to 2by3@2by3games.com I can give Pavel that has these weapons involved? Luckily there are only about 2000 of these elements in a long campaign, but I'm sure the Germans would like to have these weapons firing at long range. The fort issue should be a bit easier to figure out and fix than these range issues. Thanks for all the reports.

Attached is a edited VtB Scenario.
I've set up a Testing setup for

1. SP Werfers vs Werfers performance
2. HT Mortars vs Mortars performance
3. Mech vs Inf - Ground elements performance

[Joel Billings]

Thanks for the saves. I discussed the artillery and the HT mortar/SP Flak issues with Pavel today and he will definitely be looking into them. As these were originally Gary's code, it will likely take him some time to come up to speed on the issues, but he's best positioned now to make any changes. The artillery fort issue is something he felt he could get to the bottom of (I gave him a save for that), and he asked for a save for the other issues. Since that call I got your save and it looks good and I passed it along to him. I also saw your mech infantry post and added that as another item to look at, if only to give an opinion re a possible data change. These may be harder for him to dig into than the fort issue, but I hope eventually we will get some answers. I don't expect any quick fix on this, more like something we can work toward releasing after the holidays. Pavel is also trying to figure out the loss of the movement compass issue, as the info we got from our debug exe was not what he was expecting to see, so he has to find another approach on that. At least that bug is fixed by just saving and reloading, but we'd like to figure it out eventually. Giving us the detailed analysis and saves on these combat issues really helps, so thanks again for this.

[Joel Billings]

We think we have gotten to the root of all 3 of these combat issues. The version we're internally testing now has the HT mortars and SP rocket launchers firing at long range like other artillery. Also, we identified where infantry class elements were getting a benefit that was not being received by mech-inf class elements in the to hit chance. After the fixes, all three of these appear to be firing correctly. Thanks for providing the saves and info, they were instrumental in Pavel finding the problem. Here are the whatsnew notes describing the changes that will be coming hopefully early next year (and another mech-recon bug):

• Units with type SP Rocket Launcher and HT Mortar were not firing during the long range artillery fire phase. Fixed.
• Mech-Infantry class units were not properly accounting for the number of men in the unit when firing at soft targets, and thus were hitting less often than they should. Fixed.
• Mech-recon type ground elements were not included in several non-combat routines that dealt with accounting for their halftracks when disbanded, etc. Fixed.

[Stamb]

I suppose this changes will apply to an existing games too?

[AlbertN]

Good news!

[K62_]

• Units with type SP Rocket Launcher and HT Mortar were not firing during the long range artillery fire phase. Fixed.

Does this include Katyushas, a.k.a. Unarmored SP Rocket Launchers? Currently, these "elite" units do less damage in combat than regular Rifle Squads. The Soviet player is better off disbanding the rocket regiments and using the manpower for pretty much anything else.

weak katyushas.png (960.59 KiB) Viewed 238 times

[Wiedrock]

• Units with type SP Rocket Launcher and HT Mortar were not firing during the long range artillery fire phase. Fixed.

Does this include Katyushas, a.k.a. Unarmored SP Rocket Launchers? Currently, these "elite" units do less damage in combat than regular Rifle Squads. The Soviet player is better off disbanding the rocket regiments and using the manpower for pretty much anything else.

This was partially what I was investigating when I found out about the [Bug] Fort Level Reduction by Defender's Rockets instead of Attacker's "Heavy Artillery".

Rockets from 1944 onwards and in German Service perform normal as you can see in this screen.

Katyusha_GER.png (563.94 KiB) Viewed 227 times

What may be part of the Issue is the HUGE Ammo Use of them which you can see here:

Katyusha Ammo Use.png (317.55 KiB) Viewed 227 times

And this large Ammo Use in combination with the hidden Ammo Modifiers...

Katyusha GER vs SOV.png (492.89 KiB) Viewed 227 times

...may be the reason for their utterly bad performance during the earlier years (before 1944 hits). I would not be surprised if their arrival in TOEs (like 8 in a Tank Corps) would actually reduce the overall performance of that TOE due to the relatively large reduction in Ammo-% for the whole Division which (how I understand it) will reduce HPE/FPE for all elements of the Division. Additionally there may be a "if you have high Ammo Use but unit is low on Ammo you do not hit shit" mechanic.