What was I thinking?

[Mike McCreery]

Wargamr here. I posted a few AAR's a long time in the past, have always played the allies in this game.

I was thinking that playing the Japanese may give me a better chance to play games into the mid/late game rather than the allies.

But I dont know anything about the Japanese or how to play them.

So, this could be a flaming disaster.

Regardless, we are going to have a bit of fun.

Scenario 2, 1 day turns, relatively normal HR requests.

My plan is to follow the Japan AE setup sheet for scenario 1 posted by Kull on the boards as a backbone for the start of the game.

I know that Scenario 2 differs but will deal with that as I come across the differences I guess.

There are 3700 line items in the spreadsheet and if I spend 2 hours a day at 40 seconds per item to complete 200 lines, it will take nearly 3 weeks to finish. Enough to drive me mad, err... too late :p

At this point I welcome all opinions on how to wage the war at a very high level. Is the goal to get all oil and resources to the main island of Japan or are there areas that need attention outside that area? What are the arguments for/against the invasion of India? of Australia? If you are familiar with the research path's recommended in the spreadsheet do you agree or disagree with the implementation?

What tips and tricks do you like to use at the start of the game when playing the Japanese?

This AAR will be a workshop for me to learn the ropes of the Empire. All questions, comments and suggestions welcome.

[BBfanboy]

I can't help with the IJ side, but you should specify whether you have a PBEM opponent or are playing against the Computer Allies.

[Mike McCreery]

Hey BB,

Human opponent which is why I am taking on the Japanese side. Would like to see a game into 1943/44 again.

[BBfanboy]

PBEM is a much tougher row to hoe than playing the computer scripts. The guys that play the IJ constantly all talk about the need to ensure you have supplies in 1945. That means very little expansion of industry, targeted mostly on getting more capable aircraft, sooner. You need to use every ship you can muster to bring in fuel from the DEI and resources from Hokkaido and Sakhalin. Maybe from Fusan and Shanghai too.

Max border expansion is counter-productive IMO. You can't hold those furthest bases for long and will lose a lot of ships, troops and aircraft in the effort. Decide where you can make a tough border with mutually supporting bases and direct your efforts there. And have a plan for pull-back to another tough border.

[Mike McCreery]

I remember your games from the past, you are/were always posting AAR's.

My games include playing Lowpe, Mr. Kane, NJP, etc. Until someone comes up with an AI script that is fairly capable this game is really unplayable against the computer, it is too easy to beat unless you bend yourself in circles making adjustments for it's incompetence.

We are going with PDU on and I decided to turn off realistic R&D. This is a training game so I dont need to put unnecessary pressure on myself.

And yes, the goal is to make it into 1945 with supplies so my main focus will be logistics. That can be a fun brain challenge. My guess this is why many games end early with the Japanese simply running out of stockpiles and not paying attention on keeping them replaced.

Agree on border expansion as well. I think it is tempting to keep expanding but once you get beyond a certain point it is counter productive in terms of fuel, supplies and you just cannot react fast enough to respond to the perimeter. Not sure where the line is but it will be a point of discussion in this AAR.

[Mike McCreery]

I am trying to use Kull's scenario 1 instructions for a scenario 2 game. There are discrepancies.

If someone has a broad overview of the differences between the scenarios or could point me to a document listing them that would be awesome.

[PaxMondo]

Wargamr aka Mike;

Good to see you back in it!

When playing IJ, first and foremost you have 2 strategies to choose from:
- go for broke and try win by 12/42. That means BIG leaps very early and total disregard for '43.
- try to hold out to the bitter end which means not overly aggressive in '42.

I'll assume from your earlier remarks that you will go with a plan B, stretch the game to '45 if you can.

Given that, fighters are far and away your number 1 priority. Everything else is negotiable. For the IJN that means A7M, and maybe the George. For the IJA it is Frank, and maybe Ki83 or Ki94. Put most of your RnD on those fighters. 12x30 is a good place to start, more than that works wonders though. Yeah, that means you are not researching much else. But truthfully, the rest of the IJ aircraft have critical defects. Getting them at their normal arrival isn't really an issue. Getting Frank in early-mid '43 though is HUGE. Ditto on Sam in early '44.

Then yes, supply is king. You need to build up a HUGE reserve. Mike and I used to talk about 4M by '44 being the absolute minimum, but that may be low. This means, don't change factories much after you set them. And don't build up anything new without careful consideration. LI is really out of the question. Some HI, maybe. Some VEH, yeah probably. ARM, MSY? Nope. RSY and NSY with careful consideration. Be cautious with base development, remember those VP's are not permanent, when you lose the base they go to the allies ...

Get your strategy well set out. You need to be prepping units from day 1. Obviously, DEI is your first target. CHI is generally the second. Then OZ or India for the third, but to get there it requires that the first two are done by mid-42.

You may want re-read some of the AAR's to see how obvert, lowpe, herb and some of the other masters did it. You will find that they brought the hammer early and often and then moved on right away. no letup. Units never sit ide, they are always moving to the next target. ...

Enjoy!!!

[Mike McCreery]

Thank you so much for your reply.

[Mike McCreery]

Typical damage on Turn 1 - 2 battleships sunk

turn 1.jpg (126.08 KiB) Viewed 641 times

We agreed that TF orders could be changed on day 1. I advised my opponent that I would not use meta knowledge of the location of his carriers to gain an advantage in the game. He decided to put a sub in the same hex as the KB on turn 1 and got a shot at one of my carriers. Kind of irritating...

[InHarmsWay]

Mike, Good to see another Scen 2 PBEM game game being documented for all to see on the board, with you playing as the Japanese. In our game, we have PDU on and realistic research off as well. I am currently in August of '42 against the wily Adm Wa. He crushed me in my previous training game match so I am looking for revenge (or at least some small measure of honor in fighting into '45. I would second Pax Mondo's posts completely. I am still learning the ropes on the economy but have been researching significant fighters as well. No state secrets will be revealed on this open line, but will post shortly where I am at research wise on my highly encrypted thread on the board.

[PaxMondo]

We agreed that TF orders could be changed on day 1. I advised my opponent that I would not use meta knowledge of the location of his carriers to gain an advantage in the game. He decided to put a sub in the same hex as the KB on turn 1 and got a shot at one of my carriers. Kind of irritating...

Mike,

I hate to say it, but this is not a good harbinger for this game. I hope it was an oops and that your opponent apologized. In a PBEM, there aren't many requirements, but the two players do have to be on the same page ethically ....

[Mike McCreery]

He did not mention it when he viewed the combat turn.

I am not going to bring it up for a few reasons.
#1. Meta knowledge is fast fading in a game as pieces are moved.
#2. I did not state that he could not put his naval forces in an attack position although we agreed to try to not do anything gamey.
#3. We have a pretty simple home rule list and I feel confident that the game is already well balanced regardless of player actions.
#4. I want a player that tries to win, it will be a good challenge and I dont feel like I need to hold back at all after that.

I have a few follow up questions regarding your previous post. Will put them here now that I know what to ask about plane R&D and production.

[Mike McCreery]

Given that, fighters are far and away your number 1 priority. Everything else is negotiable. For the IJN that means A7M, and maybe the George. For the IJA it is Frank, and maybe Ki83 or Ki94. Put most of your RnD on those fighters. 12x30 is a good place to start, more than that works wonders though. Yeah, that means you are not researching much else. But truthfully, the rest of the IJ aircraft have critical defects. Getting them at their normal arrival isn't really an issue. Getting Frank in early-mid '43 though is HUGE. Ditto on Sam in early '44.


Fair enough, I have followed Kull's upgrades to R&D for the first 2 days and built up many factories. Do you change over these once they have fully repaired or did I jump the gun and need to change before repair?

Then yes, supply is king. You need to build up a HUGE reserve. Mike and I used to talk about 4M by '44 being the absolute minimum, but that may be low. This means, don't change factories much after you set them. And don't build up anything new without careful consideration. LI is really out of the question. Some HI, maybe. Some VEH, yeah probably. ARM, MSY? Nope. RSY and NSY with careful consideration. Be cautious with base development, remember those VP's are not permanent, when you lose the base they go to the allies ...

Great Points, I will keep them in mind.

Get your strategy well set out. You need to be prepping units from day 1. Obviously, DEI is your first target. CHI is generally the second. Then OZ or India for the third, but to get there it requires that the first two are done by mid-42.

You may want re-read some of the AAR's to see how obvert, lowpe, herb and some of the other masters did it. You will find that they brought the hammer early and often and then moved on right away. no letup. Units never sit ide, they are always moving to the next target. ...


Yes, I seem to remember NJP sniffing around India by February 1942. Hope to try to emulate that excellence!!

Enjoy!!!

Thank You!

[PaxMondo]

Mike,

Kull's sheet is accurate for upgrade paths. But, I haven't "followed" it in years, almost decades now. It isn't that its wrong, it's just that fighters are king for IJ. With very few exceptions, all of the other planes have glaring issues. Let's just look at them briefly.

LB's
IJ starts with Nell/Betty and Sally. Biggest issues: small bomb loads and no armor. The bomb load issue never goes away. 4x250 is the biggest you get and worse, a lot of later models are LESS (3x250 becomes MORE common). Armor only really saves bomber pilots if you have either troops or subs underneath the target (very few MIA ever convert to recovered), and truthfully this situation tends to be more rare than common. Meaning, for bombers, armor isn't as big a pilot savior as it is for fighters. That is why you end up with Nells for night bombing (their range is unbeatable) and Helen's. Both are available in '42 and RnD on them doesn't really get them much sooner, so why spend it?

DB's
This is one of the BEST stories for the IJ, but it isn't that good. The Val sux because 1x250 just isn't that much. But the upgrade is the Judy which immediately gets you a 500kg bomb BUT no change in range. By the time you get Judy, the allies will have 3 hex advantage! and while the Grace gets you 10 range, it was nerfed in stock with 2x250 instead of a 500. So, yeah, the Judy is better, but that 3 hex range issue means you do NOT want to go into a fight with them. And Grace has the range and speed, but the 250's ... ok, with enough hits on CV's they will work, but on BB's and even CA's not so much.

TB's
Even though the Jills are better than the Kate, the survivability of TB's is not good. The USN went away from TB's for a good reason.

Recon
Sure, Dinah 3 is a great plane, but you get it 1/43 anyway. The IJN? who cares because you get so FEW groups anyway. worth the RnD cost?

Transport
IJN gets decent aircraft, but there are very few groups. IJA ... Thalia is as good as you will ever get.

Patrol
Emily is better than Mavis, but why RnD when you get in mid-42 anyway?

NF
The only decent one is the VERY late Randy, but the difference in performance between Randy and Frank on night patrol ... put up 50% more Frank and you do as well or better. And Frank is 1E, Randy is 2E ....

[Mike McCreery]

Mike,

Kull's sheet is accurate for upgrade paths. But, I haven't "followed" it in years, almost decades now. It isn't that its wrong, it's just that fighters are king for IJ. With very few exceptions, all of the other planes have glaring issues. Let's just look at them briefly.

LB's
IJ starts with Nell/Betty and Sally. Biggest issues: small bomb loads and no armor. The bomb load issue never goes away. 4x250 is the biggest you get and worse, a lot of later models are LESS (3x250 becomes MORE common). Armor only really saves bomber pilots if you have either troops or subs underneath the target (very few MIA ever convert to recovered), and truthfully this situation tends to be more rare than common. Meaning, for bombers, armor isn't as big a pilot savior as it is for fighters. That is why you end up with Nells for night bombing (their range is unbeatable) and Helen's. Both are available in '42 and RnD on them doesn't really get them much sooner, so why spend it?

DB's
This is one of the BEST stories for the IJ, but it isn't that good. The Val sux because 1x250 just isn't that much. But the upgrade is the Judy which immediately gets you a 500kg bomb BUT no change in range. By the time you get Judy, the allies will have 3 hex advantage! and while the Grace gets you 10 range, it was nerfed in stock with 2x250 instead of a 500. So, yeah, the Judy is better, but that 3 hex range issue means you do NOT want to go into a fight with them. And Grace has the range and speed, but the 250's ... ok, with enough hits on CV's they will work, but on BB's and even CA's not so much.

TB's
Even though the Jills are better than the Kate, the survivability of TB's is not good. The USN went away from TB's for a good reason.

Recon
Sure, Dinah 3 is a great plane, but you get it 1/43 anyway. The IJN? who cares because you get so FEW groups anyway. worth the RnD cost?

Transport
IJN gets decent aircraft, but there are very few groups. IJA ... Thalia is as good as you will ever get.

Patrol
Emily is better than Mavis, but why RnD when you get in mid-42 anyway?

NF
The only decent one is the VERY late Randy, but the difference in performance between Randy and Frank on night patrol ... put up 50% more Frank and you do as well or better. And Frank is 1E, Randy is 2E ....

I accept your premise, I am asking how and when to phyically do the changeover. Here is a picture of the first group of R&D planes in the game at this time. Do I change them over now or do I let them repair and then change them over. Also, I do not believe I finished resizing many of the groups so when does that get done?

Thanks in advance.

[PaxMondo]

Mike,

Ahhh!!!! Now I understand your question, sorry, I am slow in my dotage!

First I am assuming PDU On. If you are PDU Off you will need to adjust a lot of this. I only play PDU On.

So, I start on turn one. I change all factories to be what I want them to be. MOST of them will remain this for the entire war (Frank, Sam, Nell, etc.) A few will change AFTER they complete their goal: A6M ... make sense? NOW, just because I change them doesn't mean I'm done.

Step 2 is to start increasing the factory size to 30 and turning the repairs on. This is where is starts to get selective. Repairing all of the factories on turn 1 to 30 will deplete your supply to the point of exhaustion. Do it as a test to see how far you will get so you really understand. Now, go back and set a drop dead limit of supply in the HI. I use Tokyo as my barometer (keeping the HQcmd General Defense there) and don't let it go below 250K supply. Then draw up your priority list: A6M/Oscar have to be No.1, right? You can't fight with Nate/Claude. Nell/Betty/Sally are pretty important too. Kate/Val can't be ignored. Then you get to your next tier (Jake, Babs, Mavis, Tina, Thalia) competing for supply against your RnD needs: George/Frank/Sam. Work this out. Get a plan, but be prepared to adjust as the early war moves along. You can't predict losses that have to be recovered.

By End of Jan 42, you should have your air frame AND engine factories mostly built out and on repair. I say "mostly" referring to engine factories in particular. Your Ha-35/33/32 factory final sizes may be enormous, but I increase these in blocks of 30, which is 1 eng/day, not increasing them all at once to what I think my final is. Reason is two-fold: I don't want to tie up all that supply at once AND I also know plans change. in particular the Ha-32/33 ratio can change if I need to build more of a model due to losses than others. EX: in an early air battle, my VALs and NELLs took really heavy losses whereas my Sally losses have been way below norm ... make sense?

Here's an outlook of the RnD:
end of Mar 42 for your George/Frank RnD, at least one factory on each should be almost fully repaired (24/30 or so) if you have at least 12 factories on it. If you are lucky, you may see the same thing already on Sam. Jun 42, at least one factory on George/Frank will be repaired, and one of the Sam factories should be close. Sept 42 several George, a few Frank, and your first Sam factory are fully repaired. You should be getting some engine bonus on both George and Frank so they are starting to advance. Jan 42, George is within 3 months, Frank looks to be mid-year, and Sam has now 2 factories repaired. Eng bonus for Sam in another couple of months ... etc

For this to happen, you need 12 - 18 factories on each RnD model you choose. If you go with 12, the above paragraph will be a 25% chance, go with 18, this is +75%. The real advantage of this large number of RnD factories isn't just getting the model early. With 18 factories, it means you will field an upgrade group every 2-3 days. Your new model does NOT trickle in, it arrives in FORCE. When Frank arrives you go from a mediocre Oscar/Tojo mix to Frank in one month in ALL of your key front line air groups. The second month, you replace ALL of your Oscar/Tojo units that you want/need.

[Mike McCreery]

Thank you for that answer, it gives me a lot of information on how to do the conversions.

It appears that there are 76 R&D factories so given the 12x30 strategy then 6 planes can be chosen for research.

Lets say I like George for the name because I dont know much more about the models.

When I go to upgrade a plane I get several options

N1K1-J George 9/43 Nakajima Ha-45
N1K3-J George 11/44 Nakajima Ha-45
N1K5-J 10/45 Nakajima Ha-43

My assumption would be to set all of the research to the earliest model the N1K1 in this example. Does this accelerate the future versions as well?

Finally, Which 6 plane models/versions would you choose to start with?

[InHarmsWay]

Yes, go with the earliest model, and research that. For the most part, once you get that up to 30 fully repaired factories, you can "upgrade" it to the next progression in that airframe. So once you get the A6M3, you can switch the factory to a A6M3a for free, ie it will upgrade to the next model, with no damage to the factory. With the engine bonus, you can then accelerate a much later model quickly. Very helpful! I would recommend trying it on an extra saved game before you do so, as there are a couple airframe lines that don't do it, and skip a model. I think one of them is the Frank Ki-84a goes straight to the Ki-84r model (does not go to the 84b model) - but check me on that!. There is a Japanese Aircraft wire chart somewhere (I got it a long time ago from the board here somewhere, and now have a dog eared copy on my desk) that helps. It is a must have to understand the Japanese airplane research progression.

[Mike McCreery]

Yes, go with the earliest model, and research that. For the most part, once you get that up to 30 fully repaired factories, you can "upgrade" it to the next progression in that airframe. So once you get the A6M3, you can switch the factory to a A6M3a for free, ie it will upgrade to the next model, with no damage to the factory. With the engine bonus, you can then accelerate a much later model quickly. Very helpful! I would recommend trying it on an extra saved game before you do so, as there are a couple airframe lines that don't do it, and skip a model. I think one of them is the Frank Ki-84a goes straight to the Ki-84r model (does not go to the 84b model) - but check me on that!. There is a Japanese Aircraft wire chart somewhere (I got it a long time ago from the board here somewhere, and now have a dog eared copy on my desk) that helps. It is a must have to understand the Japanese airplane research progression.

My opponent may still take up to a week to return the file so I have time.

I am thinking Oscar, Frank, George, Sam, Jack and Tojo for the fighters to accelerate. I agree that it is really the fighters that make a difference in the air war, particularly on the Japanese side.

[PaxMondo]

I am thinking Oscar, Frank, George, Sam, Jack and Tojo for the fighters to accelerate. I agree that it is really the fighters that make a difference in the air war, particularly on the Japanese side.

Think this through carefully. I think there are 89 total factories (or is it 90, I can never remember). IJ is supply limited, you have a fixed amount of supply to use during a game. Building AC costs a lot of supply. So, if you build a lot of early models (Oscar/Tojo), then that is what you will have to use against the TBolts in the late war. Me? I prefer to fight Tbolts with Frank/Sam.

Frank and Sam. OK. Frank and Sam are end game fighters, meaning you will use them until the bitter end. Can you build too many of them? Theoretically, sure. But in an actual game, I have never seen it. Allies are building about 1000/month front line fighters at war end. So, 2x12x30=720 may seem like a lot now, but you will have to expand those for sure; roughly double would be your target. So now 2x18x30=1080 doesn't look so unreasonable. Remember that while the Sam is an end model, the Frank a will need to upgrade to the Frank r model.

George is a bridge between A6M and Sam. It is a solid bomber killer for the IJ (4x20mm guns), and it gets you past the 350mph limit on the A6M. So it's a maybe.

Oscar? why RnD? you already have the Oscar 1c.

Jack is an exchange on the George. It is RARE to build both. George has a little better range, Jack has better climb. But they are really redundant, I would never build both.

Tojo? Why RnD? you will get it 9/42 latest already. Sure it is a nice interceptor in the early war, but how many do you really need? And it cannot kill bombers, too lightly gunned. 12x30 is 360 production/month, do you really want that many?

Oscar will need about 6x30 to meet early war needs. Ditto for A6M. that will give you 360/month front line fighters. That's more than double what the allies will build until about 1/43. You may not even need this many ... but I offer it as a starting point in your thinking.

Everything else is 1 factory each.

Val/Kate maybe 2 factories.

Nell/Betty and Sally definitely at least 4 each. I'm a big fan of the G3M3 ... monster range makes a GREAT night bomber.
Sally can convert to Helen when it arrives. 8x30=240/month 2E LB's. Maybe enough, but you can always increase the factory size ...