SP Mortar/artillery in direct fire ?

[Aga]

I have tried sometime to use SP mortar and howitzer in direct fire, even with the Z key (area fire). I would like to know if it’s a good idea to use them in direct support. Or are they too precious for that ? A interesting thing to do with the SP mortar, like the German one, is to use their smoke capability in direct fire. Generally they have a lot of smoke.
And of course you can fire with the Z key to benefit of the Area Fire in the adjacent hexes, even when you don’t have LOS to them.
So is it something I can continue to do ? or must I use them in indirect support only ?

[Vathailos]

One way to approach this question is to look at the point value of what you’re attempting to kill/suppress vs. the point value of the firing piece itself. The indirect fire pieces that have small splash-suppression/damage values (60mm/3”/81mm) are typically unarmored or lightly armored. Return fire from an AA MG or small-caliber AT weapon/rifle grenade can often kill such vehicles. I’d recommend against this unless you are SURE that the enemy’s used up his OP-fire, you REALLY need that smoke, and are relatively certain you can fire the smoke from a safe location and still retreat the unit behind cover before your turn ends. These units ability to suppress for other units indirectly IMO outweighs their direct-fire value.

Now, if you look at other pieces (for example, SturmTigers) have great value in direct-fire mode. They can kill and suppress out to two hexes from impact hex IIRC). IMO these are heavily armored enough to do serious damage outweighing the risk (assuming you’ve used up the OP-fire of the enemy’s larger AT guns/AFVs. While SturnTigers can fire indirectly, I tend to use them more for direct fire because of the above reasons.

One other good SPA piece I like to fire directly is the Wurframen (sp?), although I can’t find them in H2H.FR . Their flame rocket can wreak havoc if fired into a group of enemy AFVs.

I guess I could have said this more succinctly as follows:

1) Value as a full-battle indirect fire asset
2) Cost of firing unit vs. cost of targets firing upon/screening for
3) Ability of enemy to OP-fire your piece
4) Damage/Suppression splash of your piece
5) Ability to retreat the piece after firing into cover.

If you have 16 SP 81mm mortar HTs, and you absolutely must screen two disabled JagedTigers, you might risk one to “smoke them in”. On the other hand, I wouldn’t risk my last SturmTiger at the beginning of my turn to fire on one infantry squad overwatched by three IS-2s or 17” AT guns. Two extreme examples, but I think you get my point.

[Aga]

One way to approach this question is to look at the point value of what you’re attempting to kill/suppress vs. the point value of the firing piece itself. The indirect fire pieces that have small splash-suppression/damage values (60mm/3”/81mm) are typically unarmored or lightly armored. Return fire from an AA MG or small-caliber AT weapon/rifle grenade can often kill such vehicles. I’d recommend against this unless you are SURE that the enemy’s used up his OP-fire, you REALLY need that smoke, and are relatively certain you can fire the smoke from a safe location and still retreat the unit behind cover before your turn ends. These units ability to suppress for other units indirectly IMO outweighs their direct-fire value.

Now, if you look at other pieces (for example, SturmTigers) have great value in direct-fire mode. They can kill and suppress out to two hexes from impact hex IIRC). IMO these are heavily armored enough to do serious damage outweighing the risk (assuming you’ve used up the OP-fire of the enemy’s larger AT guns/AFVs. While SturnTigers can fire indirectly, I tend to use them more for direct fire because of the above reasons.

One other good SPA piece I like to fire directly is the Wurframen (sp?), although I can’t find them in H2H.FR . Their flame rocket can wreak havoc if fired into a group of enemy AFVs.

I guess I could have said this more succinctly as follows:

1) Value as a full-battle indirect fire asset
2) Cost of firing unit vs. cost of targets firing upon/screening for
3) Ability of enemy to OP-fire your piece
4) Damage/Suppression splash of your piece
5) Ability to retreat the piece after firing into cover.

If you have 16 SP 81mm mortar HTs, and you absolutely must screen two disabled JagedTigers, you might risk one to “smoke them in”. On the other hand, I wouldn’t risk my last SturmTiger at the beginning of my turn to fire on one infantry squad overwatched by three IS-2s or 17” AT guns. Two extreme examples, but I think you get my point.

Good advices, thank you. I didn't know that there could be a radius of two hexes for some very heavy weapon as the 380 mm Sturmtiger.

[Capt. Pixel]

A great little Direct fire smoker is the US 60mm jeep (v7.1) That puppy has loads of smoke rounds, it's small, fast and hard to hit. Just what the general ordered to plug holes in your smoke wall.

[Buzzard45]

A great little Direct fire smoker is the US 60mm jeep (v7.1) That puppy has loads of smoke rounds, it's small, fast and hard to hit. Just what the general ordered to plug holes in your smoke wall.

The 60mm is a little light in the ordnance. It takes two rounds to plug the hole in 7.1. I now use 3in or 81mm units carried in Jeeps or white trucks or Schwimwagons. They still fire smoke if loaded and moved but can hide later if you need them to. Best part is they only need one round to close the LOS through the opponents turn.

[Capt. Pixel]

The 60mm is a little light in the ordnance. It takes two rounds to plug the hole in 7.1. I now use 3in or 81mm units carried in Jeeps or white trucks or Schwimwagons. They still fire smoke if loaded and moved but can hide later if you need them to. Best part is they only need one round to close the LOS through the opponents turn.

81mm mortars on those IT TriGuzzis. They can be across the map in four turns. They're great for harrasing fire and can leave smoke trail 'arty parks' all over your backfield in no time. They also excel in heavy rough terrain maps. Even SPA have trouble in that kind of terrain.

The deal with the 60mm jeeps is that they have A LOT of smoke rounds up to 64 in many cases and rarely less than 32. I'll grant you they're not much good for anything else, but in the smoke roll, they're superb.

[Vathailos]

CPT,

Do you mean that the 81mm's are mounted on the Tri-moto-cycles?

If so, where are they listed? I'm playing the Italians now against V2, and didn't see them in the OOB (H2H.FR).

Thanks in advance

[Buzzard45]

CPT,

Do you mean that the 81mm's are mounted on the Tri-moto-cycles?

If so, where are they listed? I'm playing the Italians now against V2, and didn't see them in the OOB (H2H.FR).

The TriGuzzi is a motorcycle trike. The MotoGuzzi is still a good solid piece of machinery today (if you like that cask iron look). They carry more than your typical motorcycle. Carry capacity of 6. You load the 81mm Mortar on it and scoot around the map. The Guzzi is cheap and the 81mm crew takes more than one hit to kill, unlike a SP mortar.

[Vathailos]

Ah ha! Thanks Buzzard!

I thought CPT was referencing a SP version, like the Jeep 60mm. Those can move and direct fire HE/Smoke IIRC.

Hard to believe the trykes are still around. I do like that "cast iron" look

[Capt. Pixel]

The TriGuzzi is a motorcycle trike. The MotoGuzzi is still a good solid piece of machinery today (if you like that cask iron look). They carry more than your typical motorcycle. Carry capacity of 6. You load the 81mm Mortar on it and scoot around the map. The Guzzi is cheap and the 81mm crew takes more than one hit to kill, unlike a SP mortar.

You are correct, sir.

BTW, the Italians have an SPA truck with a 105 early in the war (Camion con 105) This is also a sweet artillery piece, uinless you happen to be playing the Italians. :rolleyes:

[Marek Tucan]

I sometimes use M7 as an assault gun - that is to defeat enemy infantry, with all long-rane AT guns wiped out by my tanks and infantry.