Some HTTR observations

[Oleg Mastruko]

HTTR changed how I view certain "wargaming problems" so to say. In other words - I play wargames for a long time, and HTTR is the first game that treats certain problems differently than any other game I've ever played.

I'm not going to comment on what is realistic and what is not - I do think HTTR is more realistic than other games in these aspects, but basically would like to see discussion about it. After getting "hooked" on HTTR I find it very hard to go back on games that treat these problems in the "old way".

1.) Artillery is NOT easy to overrun.

In almost every other game I played, lonesome arty unit caught by anything - like an infantry coy - is usually overrun in a matter of minutes, and routed or wiped out completely. Various arty-hunting techniques are gamers' favorite - if somewhat gamey - pastime, simply because it's hard to resist a good arty hunting session now and then

Not so in HTTR! Arty units are equipped with significant number of small arms, and are not at all easy to overrun, they stubbornly stand their ground and repel attacks by anything smaller than solid batallion. If you want to go for some serious arty hunting you have to detail at least a solid mech-armor battalion, and that is, in most scenarios, simply too much to spare, and arty units - as others already noticed - are hard to locate and hunt down.

I suspect this is because in HTTR every artyman carries his personal weapon (303 or Kar98) and is able to defend his position if needs be. Also, I guess arty units are modelled containing their "service" sub-units (yes? no?). In most other games arty units are modelled as having only big guns, and being totally incapable of defending themselves vs. infantry attack, let alone armor.

1b.) Artillery is NOT easy to spot.

Again, contrary to most other games I played, arty is hard to spot, and not at all easy to locate or hunt down.

The way I use arty in HTTR (scattered over the map, not inside well-protected "boxes" behind frontline as I use for them in other games) strikes me as very risky technique to use in any other game - but rarely anything happens to them in HTTR. No one spots them, no one cares to attack them, and even if attacked - unless it's by really strong force - they tend to deal with attackers quite competently. Generally, they do not need "babysitting" by strong inf units as in other games.

2.) Infiltrating the enemy frontline is EASY.

Most of the wargames I played, regardless of their being on tac, operational, or tac-operational level, tend to "produce" fairly constant frontline, that is very very hard to infiltrate. Scenarios - even desert scenarios - usually end with one long, snake-like line of frontage, where it is very easy to "declare" this or that hex or pixel as belonging to this side or other.

Not so in HTTR! Scenarios develop, and ultimately end in chaotic rag-tag battles where it's very very hard to draw anything resembling "constant frontline" on the map. OK, this is in part due to the nature of this specific campaign (Market Garden). We'll see how this works in Bulge and Greece, but I'd suspect similar thing will happen there as well.

Whenever I've read combat narratives in books, with text saying something like "XY infantry battallion infiltrated 5 kms in the enemy rear before dawn of the 7th of August etc" I thought "geez how did they do that and I am never capable of doing anything like that in <insert game here>". HTTR is the first game that lets me explore infiltration tactics to the fullest (and, unfortunatelly, experience infiltration being used against me as well).

Comments?

Oleg

[MarkShot]

Regarding arty:

Although arty will get dug-in and hold, it can very easily be dislodged when the position is hit with attacks from multiple directions. In HTTR, the source of enemy arty fire will not be able to be spotted. However, when arty units are ID'ed, they are a high priority target for the AI & player on-call arty, and they will be blasted without mercy.

Regarding lines of control:

Yes, generally HTTR battle lines look quite messy. Now, I recently beta tested a COTA scenario. (I guess it is safe to talk about as the game has been announced.) The scenario manifested some very distinct battle lines compared to HTTR. Of course, it was only a single scenario. So, it may be hard to draw any conclusions. But I do attribute that to very different terrain.

The terrain in this scenario was primarily open with just a few tree lines and very small villages and some noticeable hills. Unlike HTTR where you have large BUA and tracts of trees and woods. Thus, I think once I managed to seize key terrain features on the map, there was little opportunity for the enemy to infiltrate through my lines. Unlike HTTR, I controlled the objectives to win the scenario by application of fire as opposed to substantial presence at the objectives. In fact, I had relatively very little presence at the objectives; just a unit or two so that I had something within the perimeter.

[Grouchy]

I am currently playtesting some COTA scenario's based around Veve and as an allied player you are basically forced to use artillery in the direct-fire role.
Players will soon find out that a couple of 25pdrs and 200 rifles (well almost 200 rifles, I believe there are some modifiers to simulate that some of them are behind the guns) will do wonders in stopping units that have broke through your line.

And why shouldn't they? It happened historically as well.

1b.) I'm even go a step further [:)]. Deploying them on strategic places, like crossroads etc to intercept enemy units that have pierced my line and are loose behind the lines. Enough enemy units did get a bloody nose this way [:D].


2.) Yup, can be hell if you are short on units. All goes well during the day, but then it becomes dark. All is welll...all is under control...quit you think..then it gets light again...shock [X(]!! Crap the AI sneaked through! Bye bye frontline and plans.

[Grotius]

Very nice post, Oleg. I have to admit, other wargamers have got me conditioned to the rock-paper-scissors view of arty, and in HTTR I was pleasantly surprised to find that arty units do fight back.

I suppose one could argue that Advanced Squad Leader treated artillery somewhat similarly. The really good stuff was often off-board artillery and thus obviously impossible to find, much less damage. But even on-board arty in ASL was sturdier than in some computer wargames. A gun didn't stop firing just because it was attacked; you had to chase away or kill the gun crew.

[Tzar007]

Regarding arty:

I agree also that usually arty units don't need much babysitting or even protection if they are sufficiently far behind your lines (except for short-range mortars which need to be pretty close to the fight). But they do broke and retreat if attacked by more than 1 or 2 determined enemy coys supported with heavy weapons and arty, so having 2 or support platoons or coys around as early warning if the enemy ever manage to infiltrate to them is a worthy precaution. Although they are more resistant than usually seen in other wargames, they still have limited combat capability according to my experience (although quality of the unit plays a big role regarding that).

For example, in the Terror for Tyne Tees scenario I was playing as the Allies (Terror of the Tyne Tees), my arty units got badly mauled by enemy units. I did not care about protecting them, they were alone. Suddenly an SS-battalion size force dropped on them. They soon got overwhelmed and they tried to retreat away from the SS, but they were big guns and they don't move fast, so they got pounded and fired upon relentlessly. They finally routed in panic, suffering over 50% casualties in the process. This is the worse thing that can happen since it took a long time before they were far enough to safely deploy again and be usable, but they had lost almost all their guns in their rout...

Regarding front lines:

I agree 100% with you Oleg, and for that matter, I believe the fact that the game isn't constraint by hexes is much more realistic. They were no hexes in real life, front lines usually had some gaps here and there by which the enemy could infiltrate. I believe that in the subsequent installments of the HTTR engine we will have to re-learn to operate with more packed front lines (Bulge, Normandy, Eastern Front). I believe that it will still be possible though to infiltrate behind enemy lines even with more tighter front lines, and that will mean that keeping a mobile reaction force behind your lines will be necessary to fight these incursions.

[KNac007]

It's fair for strong artillery units (batteries and even more bn/regt) to be that strong in defence. Take into account that arty units setup perimeter defence, with several MGs placed in foholes and well dug-in men in numbers.

For the front-lines... it was the nature of WWII (and from modern wars) to have scattered frontlines. But as you said the nature of the operation makes it even more notable: the low number of units and the number of ground and objectives to cover (specially in Eindhoven map) makes infiltrtion and free of movement very easy. In other campaings the circustances would be deifferent, but during attacks, breakthrougths and exploitations the caotic of the battlefield makes it difficult to form a continuous line and you have to rely more on controlling given key ground features.

[Jaws]

I would like to see some kind of supply situation put an end to free roaming units behind enemy lines. Even though were only talking days of battle, units in heavy fire fights do and should run out of ammo if lines of supply are cut.