I must be stupid...

[edk]

I just feel dumb.

I read the AAR of folks that didn’t touch the manual and went in and creamed the AI.

I read about folks who tout the accessibility of WaW.

I read all the threads about different strategies for variosu nationalities, supply discussions, etc...

yet here I sit. Completely and totally........ lost.

I started the game three times tonight and never made it past turn two before giving up each time. I re-started a game as Germany 4 times before I figured out hwo to take France on the first turn. I watched the AI nail me on each failed attempt, then crippled the AI for Germany THEN played as the allies and could not duplicate their bolstering France the way the AI did to me when I was Germany.

I don’t get it. I read the manual once through, read the forums. Read everyone talk about how easy the game is to pick up and get into, and yet I am lost each time I start. I don't know what to do let alone what to do first.

I guess I don't mind investing time into a war game, been playing beer and pretzel ones for a better than a decade. Bought this title on the reviews which talked about how easy it was to play. I don’t see it. Wish I did. I don’t think this game is a newbie friendly as folks make it out to be. but I'm open.

What amount of time did 'real' folks invest here before figuring out what the hell to do. I guess I'll have to live with the super-war game-geniuses who figured it all out without cracking the manual, but it would be nice to hear from 'joe everyday guy' about his feelings.

edited - Not that I would turn away any advice from other players [;)]

thanks
ed

[Reiryc]

Maybe you could explain exactly what you're having problems with?

Could then offer direct advice with a concrete example and maybe help with some understanding of the game.

[Erik Rutins]

edk,

Did you try the two tutorials? Most people find them more helpful as a jump-start than diving into the manual. Some folks are just quicker studies, but it doesn't mean that they are the best. [8D] Remember the tortoise and the hare?

Let us know what are the biggest sticking points and I'm sure we and the other players will be happy to help you out.

Regards,

- Erik

[WanderingHead]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
Did you try the two tutorials?

The tutorials are definitely good (except for the bug that if you don't follow the script you get stuck).

If you can't take France after doing the tutorial, then you didn't really do the tutorial.

[ski hiker]

EDK,

I must admit to feeling the same way as you.

That's not to say that i'm not having fun trying to figure this game out....but dam i'm struggerlin'.

I read a post in 'The War' room headed "Some thoughts on winning the war with production", originally posted by daskomodo that give me a better understanding of what the overall philosophy of the game is.

It has taken me some time, but i am slowly figuring out the combat phase...the production and research phase... are something else[&:][&:][&:] .

I've been trying to find previous posts that could help 'real' beginners but as of yet have been unsuccessful. Maybe one of the Gurus[&o][&o][&o] out there could produce an idiots guide to supplement the manual. This is not a crtiicism of the manual, but i did find some of it a little overwhelming....particularly as i am completely new to this type of game.

Till things improve my mighty Red war machine will remain a 2CV....ah well it's fun tryin'[:D][;)]

[Adam Parker]

Speed reading war gamers are those who play a game for a year having a ball only to realize that their long practiced strategies are in fact illegal if only they'd noticed the fine print inside the rules [:D]

(I love reading AAR's like that - "we played all night but when I took the rules to the toilet I noticed 10 things we'd already done wrong, England is actually an Allied power...") [:'(]

[traemyn]

ski hiker and EDK, post some questions you guys have and we will answer them. or if you have a chat program like MSN or AIM I can walk you through some stuff

[Vorticonthe1st]

I can sympathize with you. I read WWII books, watch all the WWII shows on the History Channel, buy all the WWII computer games. I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, but when I bought Hearts of Iron 2 and this great looking World at War game, I'm just overwhelmed. When I really get the time to 'get into it', I may learn just how to play them. What gets me, is my 17 year old son, admittedly much smarter than I am (must have inherited mom's genes), can start playing almost any game from scratch, without even looking at the manual. He, after having played Europa Universalis and mastering that, he tells me, just by looking at the Hearts of Iron 2 screen, that it plays almost the same way, and, right in front of me, begins to play Hearts of Iron 2 like he's played it for weeks. You know, some people can just pick things up right away, and some of us have to work at it. In any case, I love the look of World at War and get excited at the prospect of having time to really 'get into it'. [:)]

[CPTBrown]

I too, felt lost at first. I "got" it after playing each tutorial twice and then watching an AI only game. The AI uses different strategies each time and you can learn from watching its moves.

[Mad Cow]

I feel your pain. The tutorials teach you how to destroy France. It's really easy. What's hard is what comes after that.

I still don't fully understand the supply, production and research aspects, but after two games I am getting better.

I was able to hold out to '45 as the Germans in my second game. Kicked the WA's collective butts but was gobbled up by the Soviets due to bad east front strategy.

[Grotius]

I got my butt kicked in my first game, and I've been playing wargames my whole life. Now I'm in a PBEM against Rome, and I've already made several mistakes. I am learning from them, though. I think. [:'(]

[carnifex]

One thing I can recommend is to play a few games controlling production only, and letting the AI worry about movement.

Do this for various countries - you will get a great idea of how the system works without having to worry about the details.

[Toby42]

ORIGINAL: carnifex

One thing I can recommend is to play a few games controlling production only, and letting the AI worry about movement.

Do this for various countries - you will get a great idea of how the system works without having to worry about the details.

That's a "Great " idea. the games flexibility lets you do this [;)]

[ski hiker]

Ok guys, its nice to hear that us noobs have friends out there that are willing to help.

I have some many questions its difficult to know where to start[:'(].

What i'm gonna do is start a game and make a list of things i'd like your help on and then i'll get back to you.

Oh dear....i fear Mother Russia will once again be having a sex change whether she likes it or not [:D][:D][:D]

[Scott_WAR]

The tutorials are very simplistic. The production tutorial is nearly useless. The movement tutorial is good enough.


Matrix should really consider redoing the tutorials to make them easier to understand, and to cover much more than they do. Especially the production video.

[Spartan07]

Dont worry about it. Check with your mum in case you are only three years old. That could be whats causing it:)

[reznap]

Hi!

I didn't finish reading the manual but I crushed AI relatively easy (as Japan and then as Germany, both on the first try) . To be honest, I don't think I really understand the game mechanics very well and I didn't think as hard as you...so what's our biggest difference?[&:]

Of course that's not our individual intelligence or even gaming experience[:-]. I think the main reason I outperformed you is that you guys just treated WaW too much as a boradgame and focus too much on the "technical"(or "rule") side of it. On the contrary, I never played a boardgame and I didn't like Axis & Allies, but I do know WW2 well and always like to think strategicaly on a grand scale.

As a matter of fact, this game is a real WARGAME with typical Gary Grigsby style. That means: you MUST think logically as a real leader in WW2. If you know WW2 history very well and are used to think historically, then the games like WIR, PW, UV, WITP or WaW are relatively easy to you since you are "strategicly right" and Gary just always rewards you for tha[:)]t. In some of the games like WIR, I would even be forced to "reproduce" the real WW2 history if I ever wanted to win!

So if you really want to win easily (especially against AI) in a Gary Grigsby game, just put yourself in the same historical situation and use your "military brain" to figure out a path to victory: If you play as Japan, just attack USSR since this is just what Axis should have done in WW2, and you should know that no matter how hard you try, WA will just push you back anyway then you will lose all the resouces. You also know that you will never benefiit from doing too much against Chinese... If you play as Germany, history already told us that the traditional Barbarossa will NOT succeed no matter how hard you try but Germany did have a golden chance to control the whloe Mediteranean and Germany should always try to neutralize Britain before Barbarossa.And you also know that historically the German U-boats are what Churchill feared most and almost strangled Britain to death. So what should you do as a German player? Go for Egypt & Gibraltar! research and produce U-boats! Try invading England ! Postpone Barbarossaa until you can envelope it from Mid East! ....And last, rely on your superior armors to crush Soviets.[:D]

Of course these are just strategies most easily to get figured out and you should not expect a similar success against a human. Of course there are many winning strategies "ahistorically" in WaW. But as I said before: WaW would just "reward" new players if they choose to think st. "historically right" as all other Gary Grigsby games. In brief, if you want an easy win in a Gary's game, just do what Gary wants to simulate. [:)]

Actually almost all real wargames will reward you if you have some kind of historical or military "common sense". So I must say WaW is more of a "wargame" than a "strategy game", even it looks so abstract, while HOI2 is definitely not a "wargame" even it provides my historical detail.

[Maginot]

I gotta agree with the original poster. I think what might be hurting me is the simplicity of Axis and Allies. I played the game for years, and I am use to some set standards. I'm simply overwhelemed by the vast amount of territory that makes up Russia, and the huge number of units that are floating around the board. I just picked up the game a few days ago, so I'm confident I'll get it eventually.

This is my first entry into a PC strategy game, save Risk, and I guess I'm just a bit overwhelemed. Is there any specific things I should try first? Pherhaps play as a certain nation in a certain time period?

[Joel Billings]

Run the tutorials first, then try China against the AI. Watch what the AI does and read the strategy notes in the manual. Then, I think the next easiest is Russia as all you're doing pre-German invasion is building up your forces. Then it's mostly a land game (with some air and a little naval). Just try to survive and get a sense for what different units can do for you.

There are many here that will be happy to help you with any questions you have. If you take it one step at a time hopefully you'll come to enjoy the strategic depth to the game and the greater choices you have than in Axis & Allies. Good luck.

[Mr.Frag]

This is my first entry into a PC strategy game, save Risk, and I guess I'm just a bit overwhelemed. Is there any specific things I should try first? Pherhaps play as a certain nation in a certain time period?

Play as the Yank/Brits and take your time. The odds are pretty seriously stacked for you. Save often, try multiple combinations of things, load back when it fails and adjsut accordingly. You only learn by doing, and you only learn from your mistakes by loading back and trying variations to learn the differences.

The biggest problem generally faced by new people is the Risk syndrome. You can not win the war in one turn. Just because you got some lucky dice doesn't mean you keep charging ahead until you run out of dice. [;)]

Move forward slowly, time is on your side. Let the game control production. The fact that most of your assets start frozen will teach you the fine art of restraint which is probably the hardest concept to learn in wargames. There is NEVER enough to do what you want. You must pick and choose. The art of wargaming is being able to pick the best path out of a seamingly endless series of choices. You only learn this by doing.