CV TF Compisition (allied)

[The Gnome]

Hi All, I'm looking for a good CV TF compisition for the allies. I have the bulk of my Yorktowns, all the Lexingtons, and 2 Essex right now.

Right now I'm broken down into:
2 CV
1 CVL
2 CA (Northhamptons or Baltimores)
2 CL (Clevelands, Helenas, or Brooklyns)
1 CLAA (Atlanta or Oakland)
7 DD (Fletchers or Bristols)

I was thinking of throwing in a newer BB into the mix for more AA, but right now my fastest model is only(only?) 27-28 knots, and I don't want it to slow down the TF. It might be worth the tradeoff but for now I'm going with speed.

Anyone see anything wrong, or anything that could be set up better?

[freeboy]

flak looks good, I only wonder about your cap, much more important

[Bradley7735]

I'd put more DD's in there. 7 doesn't seem like much. I'd go with 10 to protect 3 carriers and 5 cruisers.

[The Gnome]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

flak looks good, I only wonder about your cap, much more important

I usually operate them together for mutual CAP support. I do tend to sweat bullets if they get seperated, and an air attack comes in though! Is the CV coordination penalty for the number of carriers in the same hex, or the same TF?

Also, when operating in dangerous waters I normally run at 50-70% cap - depending on my strike mission targets of course.

[The Gnome]

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

I'd put more DD's in there. 7 doesn't seem like much. I'd go with 10 to protect 3 carriers and 5 cruisers.

I thought there was a penalty for operating more than 15 ships in a TF? I'm at work and manualess right now!

[freeboy]

15 for Flak, and its per tf as best I understand on the penelty

[The Gnome]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

15 for Flak, and its per tf as best I understand on the penelty

Ok, good catch... I thought it was 20 for the cap penalty, lol - whoops!

Isn't there a coordination penalty for multiple ships? Or is that just for Surface Combat?

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

I'd put more DD's in there. 7 doesn't seem like much. I'd go with 10 to protect 3 carriers and 5 cruisers.

I thought there was a penalty for operating more than 15 ships in a TF? I'm at work and manualess right now!

There is, don't know how bad it is though (at work too) sometimes I have added 1 or 2 more ships over 15 and it hasn't seemed to hurt much but typically I don't (rather create more TF's)

I tend to do CAP at around 70% but I generally have the same proportions you have although the cruisers might not be so balanced. Your BB's should be bombarding stuff, at least until you get the Iowa's which can keep up.

[mc3744]

I'm quite sure the >15 penalty applies to surface engagements only.

I bet you don't want to engage a CV TF, do you? [:D]
They must have better things to do than shooting their guns [;)]

[The Gnome]

I tend to have a Surface Combat TF with a couple of SoDaks and North Carolinas following the CV's as well.... just in case I stumble upon a night fight.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: mc3744

I'm quite sure the >15 penalty applies to surface engagements only.

it doesn't.

Which isn't to say it isn't worth putting that 16th+ ship in the TF, you just have a diminshing returns effect.


My normal CV TF assuming available assets is around:

2 CV/3 CV/2 CV + 1 CVL/ 2 CV + 2 CVL
4 CA
2 CLAA or CL
10-12 DD
(if avail a Fast BB or two might replace 1 or 2 of the CA)

The high DD number is as much to provide a good ASW/ anti surface screen as AA. The latter of course is extremely unlikely but ya never know either [X(]

[ckk]

a fast BB not only supplies a lot of flak but will draw almost as much attention as a flattop and the smaller bombs that will take a carrier out of action will bounce off a BB[:'(]

[Nikademus]

Being a BB purist...i actually hate saddling my precious few fast BB's to the CV TF's but yeah, one cant deny their AA punch is a vital contribution. If i have enough CLAA's around i'll try to keep a few fast BB's seperate to conduct more manly type operations vs. sheparding a bunch of girlie men flyboys. [:'(]

[The Gnome]

By fast BB's do you mean the Iowa's exclusively? I'm about to get my first one and can't wait!

[Nikademus]

no, was also including the NC and SoDak's as well. They really put some meat into my potato surface TF's. The elder slow BB's are just that..too slow to risk accept in areas where you pray there is not serious air opposition.

[Tom Hunter]

I just had my whole R class fleet torpedoed by Blackwatch in the Macassar straight. The BBs attract attention and the old slow ones can't dodge the torpedos. By the way there were never many Betties and Nells, they came without escort and they flew right through the Fulmars flying CAP.

On the bright side Blackwatch did not have enough stuff to actually sink them, and my invasion is ashore so its ok.

I

[Grotius]

Your BB's should be bombarding stuff

Do BBs bombard better than CAs in WITP? I thought someone on this board was suggesting that CAs actually perform better (in the game).

[The Dude]

My Ideal Allied TF

2 Essex
2 Independence
2 fast BB
2 CA (SF or Baltimore)
4 CLs (Cleveland)
2 CLAA (I find these overated so i leave these with invasion CVE TFs
8-12 Fletchers, Sumners[:D], Gearings

[rogueusmc]

My CV TF composition is as follows:

1 CV
2 CAs or CLAAs for AA
4 DDs for ASW.

I like to put two of these together and add another DD to keep with the 15 ship rule.

I like to have a dedicated ASW TF follow it with a 6 ship limit (selfimposed).

If I need more CV punch, I duplicate the TF and have one follow the other.

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

Hi All, I'm looking for a good CV TF compisition for the allies. I have the bulk of my Yorktowns, all the Lexingtons, and 2 Essex right now.

Right now I'm broken down into:
2 CV
1 CVL
2 CA (Northhamptons or Baltimores)
2 CL (Clevelands, Helenas, or Brooklyns)
1 CLAA (Atlanta or Oakland)
7 DD (Fletchers or Bristols)

I was thinking of throwing in a newer BB into the mix for more AA, but right now my fastest model is only(only?) 27-28 knots, and I don't want it to slow down the TF. It might be worth the tradeoff but for now I'm going with speed.

Anyone see anything wrong, or anything that could be set up better?

Because of the rules set re air coordination it's smart (and just happens to represent Allied CV operational doctrine until later in the war) to use your CV assets in smaller TFs, each with a single CV, then have all these CV TFs sail together in the same hex. This allows all the collective flak in the hex to contribute to air defense and makes it likely no more than a couple of your precious CVs will come under attack from any given enemy CV TF or land-based air strike--and with luck only one of your CVs will come under attack. All of your AA cruisers should be in attendance, as well as your best AA-rated BB/CA/CL/DDs. spread out amongst the various CV TFs. To ensure this mob stays together, if possible include a ship that is at least a knot slower than the others and stick it in any CV TF, then order that CV TF lead the way, with the other TFs following along behind (this to ensure your lead CV TF doesn't inadvertently outpace the TFs in train).

I don't view speed as being the most important consideration in operations of this kind. The most important consideration is aircraft carrier safety! By including the North Carolina/South Dakota-class BBs you're only going to drop from 6/6 to 5/5, and when you think about it that 6/6 would likely be a 5/5 soon anyway just from normal wear and tear to one of your escorting ships. By starting out as 5/5 you're merely anticipating this inevitability. Meanwhile, by including these newer BBs in the mix you're adding a wealth of AA protection to your CVs, which are, after all, your most important assets. Also, as mentioned above, BBs act as bomb/torpedo magnets during battles, thus saving your CVs from that much more enemy attention. In a word, fast BBs in your mix can make the critical difference between winning and losing an air battle at sea.

The only drawback to this arrangement involves the rule re carrier reaction to enemy carriers. Unfortunately, these indivudual CV TFs will all react differently (i.e. it could be one or more will choose not to react, perhaps leaving then one or more CV TFs exposed to enemy reprisal alone). That's a pity, and yet another game mechanic which begs for review, but as long as that rule's in there it has to be dealt with, and so if I were you I'd set reaction to "0" for all your CV TFs. This will effectively guard against the worst case, though it might mean your carriers will not be close enough to strike back at your longer-armed enemy--they probably will be, assuming you know where the enemy CVs are and issue your course orders accordingly, but they might not.

Anyway, it's your fleet and the choice is always yours. Be creative if you want. [:)]