Yes, PH attack is borked. Some test data...

[Oznoyng]

I have been running tests on the PH attack. The following is some data from 38 runs of the PH attack out of a planned 100. (Will take a while to run em all, then more time to enter into spreadsheet, analyze, etc.).

Methodology
1. Begin H2H game. Set KB to patrol/Do not Retire.
2. Run turn and record Sys/Float and total torpedo hits on Allied turn.
3. Run turn and record Sys/Float and total torpedo hits on Allied turn.
4. Run turn and record Sys/Float and total torpedo hits on Allied turn.

Benchmark for damage:
Scen 16 2xBB sunk, 2x99sys, 3x15sys, 1x75 sys. (318 total sys damage among ships not sunk).

Results:
28 trials where no BB sunk. (will provide avg dmg once I enter into spreadsheet)
10 trials where 1 BB sunk.
2 trials where 2 BB sunk (combined sys damage among remaining ships 231 and 258)

Conclusion:
Thirty-eight trials, none of which even met historical results suggests strongly that teh IJN attack is not strong enough. What is worse, I conducted the same attack for three days running. In most cases, 3 days of attacks did not exceed what transpired historically in a few hours. Draw your own conclusions.

[rogueusmc]

Were you rerunning the turn or were you backing all the way back out and selecting the scenario everytime?

[madmickey]

On Dec 8 you can run additional CV attack on Pearl. The american have nothing to threaten you with. His CV are no match to your KB, he has no air force on PH and his subs are pretty useless. You can run CV attack for a few days and damage a bunch of CA, CL, DD, AK and AP as well as sinking of a few BB. The Ships in PH can not sneak out at night as they have 1000 op points after each attack.

[Oznoyng]

I have three machines running tests simultaneously. I start the scenario, set KB to patrol, do not retire, run 3 turns, stopping at each allied turn to record BB damage. I then exit the app, and reload the scenario for the next iteration. All turns are different (I am recording damage from each BB and no two the same so far).

[Oznoyng]

ORIGINAL: madmickey

On Dec 8 you can run additional CV attack on Pearl. The american have noting to threaten you with. His CV are no match to your KB, he has no air force on PH and his subs are pretty useless. You can run CV attack for a few days and damage a bunch of CA, CL, DD, AK and AP as well as sinking of a few BB. The Ships in PH can not sneak out at night as they have 1000 op points after each attack.

Aye, I can. Unfortunately, scen 16 neither allows me to deploy my forces the way I want nor does it grant the VP to the IJN player from sinking the two BB's, an important consideration since each BB is around 190 VP.

[madmickey]

Have you adjusted what the KB airplanes attack each turn after Dec 8.

[rtrapasso]

Aye, I can. Unfortunately, scen 16 neither allows me to deploy my forces the way I want nor does it grant the VP to the IJN player from sinking the two BB's, an important consideration since each BB is around 190 VP.

Yes, you DO get VP for the BB sunk. They are rolled into the VP value for Tokyo, iirc - you get 500 pts more in scen 16 than 15. Someone pointed out that if they lost Tokyo, they lost the points, but then realized that they would have lost the game anyway.

[Reverberate]

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng
Yes, PH attack is borked.

Borking seems to be the one thing that WITP support is good at. Unfortunately, the only thing.

I knew there was going to be trouble when the last 1.5 build was sent to the beta-testers, and then released to public less than 24 hours later. Not that the beta-testers have ever caught anything before..........ever.

[Williamb]

try changing the attack package

DROP the Kates from 5,000 to 1,000 feet. Make sure they are on either Port or Naval attack.

Drop Vals to 5,000 feet. I use most of mine to hit the airfeilds

MOVE Zeros up to 10,000 feet set to escort. No use losing the fighters.

Will do more damage (but wil lose more planes)

[madmickey]

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng

ORIGINAL: madmickey

On Dec 8 you can run additional CV attack on Pearl. The american have noting to threaten you with. His CV are no match to your KB, he has no air force on PH and his subs are pretty useless. You can run CV attack for a few days and damage a bunch of CA, CL, DD, AK and AP as well as sinking of a few BB. The Ships in PH can not sneak out at night as they have 1000 op points after each attack.

Aye, I can. Unfortunately, scen 16 neither allows me to deploy my forces the way I want nor does it grant the VP to the IJN player from sinking the two BB's, an important consideration since each BB is around 190 VP.

I am talking about doing this in scen 15 after first attack you still have 80% of max sorties available. The only thing is you may not have 800 AP bombs for Vals.

[rogueusmc]

ORIGINAL: Reverberate

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng
Yes, PH attack is borked.

Borking seems to be the one thing that WITP support is good at. Unfortunately, the only thing.

I knew there was going to be trouble when the last 1.5 build was sent to the beta-testers, and then released to public less than 24 hours later. Not that the beta-testers have ever caught anything before..........ever.

how rude

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

ORIGINAL: Reverberate

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng
Yes, PH attack is borked.

Borking seems to be the one thing that WITP support is good at. Unfortunately, the only thing.

I knew there was going to be trouble when the last 1.5 build was sent to the beta-testers, and then released to public less than 24 hours later. Not that the beta-testers have ever caught anything before..........ever.

how rude

Maybe so, but that's more a matter of perception. Truth is the game gives clear indication of having been given short shrift in terms of design, this accompanied by what appears to a willy-nilly development approach. There is, after all, more than a little to fix.

[Banquet]

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

ORIGINAL: Reverberate



Borking seems to be the one thing that WITP support is good at. Unfortunately, the only thing.

I knew there was going to be trouble when the last 1.5 build was sent to the beta-testers, and then released to public less than 24 hours later. Not that the beta-testers have ever caught anything before..........ever.

how rude

Maybe so, but that's more a matter of perception. Truth is the game gives clear indication of having been given short shrift in terms of design, this accompanied by what appears to a willy-nilly development approach. There is, after all, more than a little to fix.

What's perception got to do with it? To say that beta's have never 'caught anything' isn't only rude, it's insulting and totally incorrect.

In a game of such scope there's always going to be things that need fixing. Matrix/2by3's first job is to stay afloat. In doing so they may have released WitP with some flaws.. but they still gave us a simulation of the theatre that's unparelled.

Suggesting improvements is one thing. Throwing stupid insults at beta's shouldn't be dignified.

[rogueusmc]

ORIGINAL: Banquet

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc



how rude

Maybe so, but that's more a matter of perception. Truth is the game gives clear indication of having been given short shrift in terms of design, this accompanied by what appears to a willy-nilly development approach. There is, after all, more than a little to fix.

What's perception got to do with it? To say that beta's have never 'caught anything' isn't only rude, it's insulting and totally incorrect.

In a game of such scope there's always going to be things that need fixing. Matrix/2by3's first job is to stay afloat. In doing so they may have released WitP with some flaws.. but they still gave us a simulation of the theatre that's unparelled.

Suggesting improvements is one thing. Throwing stupid insults at beta's shouldn't be dignified.

HERE HERE

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: Banquet

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc



how rude

Maybe so, but that's more a matter of perception. Truth is the game gives clear indication of having been given short shrift in terms of design, this accompanied by what appears to a willy-nilly development approach. There is, after all, more than a little to fix.

What's perception got to do with it? To say that beta's have never 'caught anything' isn't only rude, it's insulting and totally incorrect.

In a game of such scope there's always going to be things that need fixing. Matrix/2by3's first job is to stay afloat. In doing so they may have released WitP with some flaws.. but they still gave us a simulation of the theatre that's unparelled.

Suggesting improvements is one thing. Throwing stupid insults at beta's shouldn't be dignified.

I've been around for awhile and I've read plenty of "insults" on this board, and going both ways, too. Why get upset about that?

Meanwhile, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if v1.5 were no more playable than v1.4, and for all I know more errors yet have been installed. If you read these threads as they mature that would seem to be the case as of now, and we're only a few days into v1.5's release. It could get very well become worse!

Have you forgotten that Allied Sub Doctrine was a "feature" installed by this same support staff based on what I'd consider to be idiotic requests from this very board?

Please, if you're offended by this kind of stuff, that's fine, but at least try to maintain something like a reasonable perspective about what's going on here with regard to the big picture. WitP wasn't released with just a "few glitches" you know. It was released in awful shape. And at a premium price to boot.

[Cap Mandrake]

Set the Kates to 1000-2000 ft, on naval/port, close the range to 60 nm. There will be fireworks. On turn two there will be further damage

BTW...to me, the verb "to bork" means to torpedo a nomination with extreme violence [:)]

PS...Picasso sometimes painted pictures of women with lopsided breasts or wtih two eyes on one side of their nose.

[sadja]

They only problem with PH attack is the torps are so random,The IRL it was about 50/50. The 800kg were for the inboard BB's. In real life only the Arizona was a total loss. The Oklahoma was righted but it was it wasn't cost effective to rebuild it. I have only played 3 PBEM and I sunk 2,0 and 1 BB.The last one was 1.5patch and got 3 kate torp rolls, the one with 0 had no torps show up. The attack was suppose to keep the US fleet from disturbing the move into the SRA. The Italians raised all thier BB's at Tranato. That means the brits didn't sink any BB's by our rules. But the Italians were not as much as a danger for quite awhile. The harbor at both tranato and PH were just to shallow. If the Oklahoma hadn't had all her watertight doors opened for monday inspection she might have just settled to the bottom. The Japanese should have allowed the Nevada to sortie instean trying to sink her in the channel. the could have sunk her in the apporach if they had waited about 15min and she would have never been raised.

Even if both carries were in the harbour they may have been sunk but most likely raised. It would have kept the come back later but the allies would still win. This is a game. If the japanese player sunk every ship in PH and caught both carriers they still lose. The only way Japan wins this game is if you get more points the allies. It is a game play it as a game. This is not statamatic baseball with all the numbers crunched down to the 10 thousands. It is some of the randomness that makes it fun. People put thier ships and troops in harms way that in real life those chances would never and been taken. look at Blackwatch's AAR, Japan is extended and getting wacked, but that is how they want to Play Thier GAME(not yelling just emphising) In real life if Kurtia? continued on at Guadelcanal and sunk all the transports maybe the war had been different(no we still win) just harder. Please enjoy the game and quit trying to make machine code do what people do. I love this game and will feel the ups and downs of playing the japanese.[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]

Sadja

[Banquet]

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn

Please, if you're offended by this kind of stuff, that's fine, but at least try to maintain something like a reasonable perspective about what's going on here with regard to the big picture. WitP wasn't released with just a "few glitches" you know. It was released in awful shape. And at a premium price to boot.

I'm not at all offended, but I likely would be if I was a beta.. having been accused of never catching a bug.. ever..

I'd say it was the original poster of this comment that was unable to maintain a reasonable perspective, along with anyone who tries to justify his position.

[Cap Mandrake]

If I can quote him correctly, Frag said that the torp-arming rule was an abstaction to allow for the fact that some targets in harbors were moored in too shallow waters (or were moored alongside another ship).

Tritianjohn...I don't think civility need be eschewed (edit: I'm not saying you weren't being civil) just because we are on the web. As for the price of the game..a mere trifle...I sometimes spend that much on a bottle of wine and then cant remember it in the morning [;)]

[sadja]

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

If I can quote him correctly, Frag said that the torp-arming rule was an abstaction to allow for the fact that some targets in harbors were moored in too shallow waters (or were moored alongside another ship).

Tritianjohn...I don't think civility need be eschewed (edit: I'm not saying you weren't being civil) just because we are on the web. As for the price of the game..a mere trifle...I sometimes spend that much on a bottle of wine and then cant remember it in the morning [;)]

Amen I've spent thousands of hours on this game playing planing and just thinking about my moves. I enjoy this about as much anyhting that I've done. Quit jumping out of planes don't live near the ocean anymore(can't sail) just love this game.[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]