Hello to everybody ;
*********SITUATION
I am a member of a group of players who wants to play a tournament using SPWAW6.1
Sometimes while starting a PBEM secure game I receive the following message :
Security violation !!!Player2 installation corrupt
This is a very instant message suddenly followed by this other one :
Override security warning (Y/N) ?
********************WHAT I DO
This happened to me two times when I was playing old versions..the first time we played the game
SO vs IT till the end with no problems at the begining and in the course of battle ..but at my last turn I won the game and it was over..at that point I had to save the score to send my opponent the statistics...
The SAVE SCORE button was red and I was not allowed to save the game!!...I pressed then the end of turn button and I sent him the game files
but he was not able to load them ..I emailed the files more than one time...
nothing to do...
We played again a second battle IT vs SO , this trouble repeated again but during the initial turns...we were not able to continue the battle!
***************WHAT NOW
Now I have to play a battle against a human opponent HU vs BE and again this message was shown to me..
I feel quite hopeless...
********************DIAGNOSTICS
I started a serie of researches to understand what is going on..first of all I would pray everybody else who found this problem to write here about his experience
Now let me say I have recently formatted completely my HardDisk..and I reinstalled all the programs...I have got the original Norton Antivirus and I do not think it may be a virus problem...
SPWAW installation...
I have installed SPWAW5.1 from the original MCNA MegaCD..(my MEGACD is one of that ones which included the vid012.smk corrupted file ) then I upgraded it to 6.1 with the two patches downloaded two times from the site :
5.1 to 5.2
5.2 to 6.1
Let me say I do not think the smk file can influence the secure PBEM game's file..
I didn't install any PBEM manager or any other program CLIENT NET , SAVEGAME Manager) ,campaign or scenery out of the ones provided by these patches...
I asked to my opponent about his installation
and he answered that he was playing version 6.1
with any other program..he also told me he had other secure PBEM games with no problem...
The master of the tournament told me this problem was found also by other two members ...so this may not seem a question of my PC or my SPWAW's configuration...
Since overriding this warning makes the battle
unpredictable this may prevent a regular tournament besides the honesty of the players...
****************************QUESTION TO MATRIX
Looking at the source code..exactly which kind of events bring to display this kind of error's message ?
***************************HYPOTHESIS
Can be a different installation's sequence of the patches causing the same file be corrupted after it has been patched ?
What other update can influence the OOBs installed ?
May any added campaign or scenery change some
OOB so that all the players of a tournament must
follow the same history of installation of any add-on ?
*************HOW TO FACE THIS KIND OF PROBLEM
Is there a program who can check OOBs status and maybe compare players configurations ?
What can we do to check where configurations
differs from each other ?
************************CONCLUSION
Since this problem concerns the general compatibility among all the players I hope we will have a good feedback about this question...
I humble invite all the members of the tournament directly involved in this problem to show their comments here..
Thank you very much in advance to everyone will help me not to be left out from the tournament for game incompatibility !
Best regards
Commander Ruxius
4th/HU/Inf Detachment
help request for a tournament
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
help request for a tournament
Italian Soldier,German Discipline!
Checks out this link:
http://www.matrixgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=006761
I experience this problem when I started a pbem game from home and play it at work or vice versa. I guess if someone really wants to cheat, they could do it. However, sometime you just have to trust your opponent <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
http://www.matrixgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=006761
I experience this problem when I started a pbem game from home and play it at work or vice versa. I guess if someone really wants to cheat, they could do it. However, sometime you just have to trust your opponent <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
"My friends, remember this, that there are no bad herbs, and no bad men; there are only bad cultivators."
Les Miserables
Les Miserables
Yes, I too encountered this error message.
I assumed that I must have edited something in the OOB's, but being unsure, I decided to just reinstall SPWAW and patch it up to 6.1 again.
All this had no effect. I still get the message, and I decided to just accept it and play.
Hopefully, all will turn out well. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
I assumed that I must have edited something in the OOB's, but being unsure, I decided to just reinstall SPWAW and patch it up to 6.1 again.
All this had no effect. I still get the message, and I decided to just accept it and play.
Hopefully, all will turn out well. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Squatting in the bush and marking it on a map.
Thank you very much Inp468 for your link...and also thank to the other players who reported their experience...now I am sure this is not a problem restricted to only few people..
Now I have also to understand better Paul's reply...
It seems that in general this message may not bring the game to a crash ...but I am sorry to say I am not so lucky..both my two games were damaged ..now I am playing a third one and I really hope to finish it without any problem..
In this post I found some elements...
the master sets the game in his own PC and then he mails it to the Player1 ..Player1 plays his turn and mails the files to player2 ...a third person...now it's clear that this third person
opens the game files into a different location from the original one...
Can this be considered a POSSIBILITY ?
When this warning may be overridden with no risk then no problem in having it each time a secure game starts..different would be the case in which
games fail...this means all the players of a tournament should freeze their updates to play a safe tournament..
anyway thanks to everybody..maybe we will arrive
to a solution..
As for now I will go on playing the battle of a tournament...
SEe you later...
[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: ruxius ]</p>
Now I have also to understand better Paul's reply...
It seems that in general this message may not bring the game to a crash ...but I am sorry to say I am not so lucky..both my two games were damaged ..now I am playing a third one and I really hope to finish it without any problem..
In this post I found some elements...
In fact the procedure of the tournament is thatOriginally written by Joss:
This is designed to alert your opponent that the turn has been played in something other than the original location.
the master sets the game in his own PC and then he mails it to the Player1 ..Player1 plays his turn and mails the files to player2 ...a third person...now it's clear that this third person
opens the game files into a different location from the original one...
Can this be considered a POSSIBILITY ?
[/b]Originally written by Paul :
It lets you know that something about the game install was changed between the time you started the game and the current turn. New games you start form the new install won't show that unless you change something about the game file structure, like overwrite the OOBs, or move or reinstall the game, or play on a different computer, after you start the game.
When this warning may be overridden with no risk then no problem in having it each time a secure game starts..different would be the case in which
games fail...this means all the players of a tournament should freeze their updates to play a safe tournament..
anyway thanks to everybody..maybe we will arrive
to a solution..
As for now I will go on playing the battle of a tournament...
SEe you later...
[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: ruxius ]</p>
Italian Soldier,German Discipline!
ruxius,
Are you playing in the Double Deuce Tournament? I got the same message in the last round,PO vs HU, except it was "Player 1 installation corrupt". The game seemed to play without any problems, but I had the same problem at the end of the game. The HU player(player2) sent me the end of game files, but I couldn't open them.
I just started a PBEM game today, and I was player 2. When I opened the files, I got the Player 1 installation corrupt message, override security violatin?? yes.(I'm player 2) Bought my troops and deployed them. I don't think that this game has been altered (different slot, OOB's or whatever). I will email my opponent and see if he changed anything and if so I will post it here.
Bascom
Are you playing in the Double Deuce Tournament? I got the same message in the last round,PO vs HU, except it was "Player 1 installation corrupt". The game seemed to play without any problems, but I had the same problem at the end of the game. The HU player(player2) sent me the end of game files, but I couldn't open them.
I just started a PBEM game today, and I was player 2. When I opened the files, I got the Player 1 installation corrupt message, override security violatin?? yes.(I'm player 2) Bought my troops and deployed them. I don't think that this game has been altered (different slot, OOB's or whatever). I will email my opponent and see if he changed anything and if so I will post it here.
Bascom
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."<br />- Gerald Ford
Yes Rebelbug , we fight each other into the same tournament...ehehehe and you seem to be be very resolute to gain the island <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> !Originally posted by bchapman:
ruxius,
Are you playing in the Double Deuce Tournament?
DeubleDeuce told me about two other players who found this problem...it's a good thing that we
open a discussion about this problem before a new patch will be available for SPWAW...
That's exactly the same problem I had..while being player1 ...maybe he was not able to press the save score button too...
The HU player(player2) sent me the end of game files, but I couldn't open them.
This anomaly is the minor problem..I experienced also a blocking in the middle of a battle...and you know how this could be dangerous when one of the players is winning in a tournament...
Since the new era of SPWAW spent a lot of efforts in opening to multiplayer this should not be
considered a minor problem...
maybe we need something which can control installation..
Thanks for your help !
Italian Soldier,German Discipline!
-
DoubleDeuce
- Posts: 1236
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- Contact:
Hello to the players in my tournament. For those of you reading this message board (as well as those who might have an answer for what we are exeriencing) let me put this out for thought. I installed the MEgaCampaign to a different directory and deleted the original install. I then manually moved the entire folder to simulate the original install (in the Steel Panthers folder). I think this could be part of the problem. It could also be that I created the PBEM game on my PC then sent it to 2 other players to play after I set both passwords. Maybe this adds a third party who the game sees as a security violation?
I guess my big question is. If you select to override the security message and continue, is the game still continued as secure? Other than the alert that something may not be OK with the file my tests appear to support that.
I guess my big question is. If you select to override the security message and continue, is the game still continued as secure? Other than the alert that something may not be OK with the file my tests appear to support that.
-
Paul Vebber
- Posts: 5342
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 4:00 pm
- Location: Portsmouth RI
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Game security is a matter of degree. Folks who want to cheat can find ways to cheat. SHort of working with files resident on a server, there is no way to prevent some forms of cheating, without often having innocent mistakes render games "locked".
When ever you DO ANYTHING to the game files (move them, reinstall them, overwrite them, etc) the game generates a security violation, becasue a chaeter could be doing those things to gain an unfair advantage. SO if you reinstall the game, or install an update, any games in progress will note security violations, because it doesn't know wheter tyou upgraded, or hacked the files and overwrote them. THis is normal.
Becasue it is so easy to mishandle files and the number of people being 'locked out" of games for innocent mistakes, the "Cure" seemed worse than the disease - players were suffereing more from spoiled games due to file mishandling than form cheats, so we removed the "lock ot" feature when errors occur and just left the noticies. IF you play an opponant that always has errors, then you may want to play someone else.
IF you are that worried about players cheating, find something else todo, because you will think your enemy cheated every time you lose or your opponant gets lucky, and a well practived cheat will ensure that he wins without raising any suspicions.
"Secure" games remain just as secure after a security violation notice, as before. The key to tournament play is to have the players all play the same scenario and look at the scores players get. IF in 20 playingsthe average score is 5000 to 3000 and one player wins 9000 to 53 then something may be fishy. Maybe not, his opponant may have been very inept. But if it keeps happening, then some investigation may be in order. THe other protection is to have 2 or 3 moles in the tournament that deliberately play into situations where an enemy has an obvious opportunity that is only apparent if the opponant is cheating, and then keep track of who take sthe "invisible" bait and who doesn't.
Our hope is to have ways to use "tournament servers" in out future games where files are not stored on your PC or your opponants, but on a server where access can be controlled and access limited. That is the only way we can see to have truely "cheat proof" tournaments.
For now youhave to accept that its a pain to chaet, but with enough time on their hands, a determined person can cheat in a number of ways. Typically the player you think is cheating is just lucky and the player who always seems to just eeck out a hard fouhgt win, the more likely candidate for cheat.
The bottom line is if winning is so important to you that you think cheating to get tournament wins is your recourse, then your a spineless weasel whose ego is only surpassed by your insecurity. You stink. Enjoy it now, because youtr days are numbered!
TO those who don;t cheat and play very well and never seem to win, and are suspicious of the winners, odds are your enemy won fair and square, and if not, if you put up a good fight, then take solace in the fact that if you nearly beat someone who is cheating, you are damn good! and will continue to get better, and eventually will force a cheater to be so barefaced, that they will expose themselves. Excellence in play is its own reward, and players get to know good tactics and good players and who are the "always lucky" players whose winning % are high despite questionable tactics.
When ever you DO ANYTHING to the game files (move them, reinstall them, overwrite them, etc) the game generates a security violation, becasue a chaeter could be doing those things to gain an unfair advantage. SO if you reinstall the game, or install an update, any games in progress will note security violations, because it doesn't know wheter tyou upgraded, or hacked the files and overwrote them. THis is normal.
Becasue it is so easy to mishandle files and the number of people being 'locked out" of games for innocent mistakes, the "Cure" seemed worse than the disease - players were suffereing more from spoiled games due to file mishandling than form cheats, so we removed the "lock ot" feature when errors occur and just left the noticies. IF you play an opponant that always has errors, then you may want to play someone else.
IF you are that worried about players cheating, find something else todo, because you will think your enemy cheated every time you lose or your opponant gets lucky, and a well practived cheat will ensure that he wins without raising any suspicions.
"Secure" games remain just as secure after a security violation notice, as before. The key to tournament play is to have the players all play the same scenario and look at the scores players get. IF in 20 playingsthe average score is 5000 to 3000 and one player wins 9000 to 53 then something may be fishy. Maybe not, his opponant may have been very inept. But if it keeps happening, then some investigation may be in order. THe other protection is to have 2 or 3 moles in the tournament that deliberately play into situations where an enemy has an obvious opportunity that is only apparent if the opponant is cheating, and then keep track of who take sthe "invisible" bait and who doesn't.
Our hope is to have ways to use "tournament servers" in out future games where files are not stored on your PC or your opponants, but on a server where access can be controlled and access limited. That is the only way we can see to have truely "cheat proof" tournaments.
For now youhave to accept that its a pain to chaet, but with enough time on their hands, a determined person can cheat in a number of ways. Typically the player you think is cheating is just lucky and the player who always seems to just eeck out a hard fouhgt win, the more likely candidate for cheat.
The bottom line is if winning is so important to you that you think cheating to get tournament wins is your recourse, then your a spineless weasel whose ego is only surpassed by your insecurity. You stink. Enjoy it now, because youtr days are numbered!
TO those who don;t cheat and play very well and never seem to win, and are suspicious of the winners, odds are your enemy won fair and square, and if not, if you put up a good fight, then take solace in the fact that if you nearly beat someone who is cheating, you are damn good! and will continue to get better, and eventually will force a cheater to be so barefaced, that they will expose themselves. Excellence in play is its own reward, and players get to know good tactics and good players and who are the "always lucky" players whose winning % are high despite questionable tactics.
-
Paul Vebber
- Posts: 5342
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 4:00 pm
- Location: Portsmouth RI
- Contact:
Paul , we hoped a word from you...thank you for your long explanation !!
The tournament's master creates the game files..and he did some installation changes..also the third player was not the same as the first one...
that's why the message has been shown..
but you also said you removed the LOCK at the files..
when I first found this problem I lost the saved game files but I was playing the 5.0 version..maybe a version were the LOCK was still there..
Now in 6.1 we have to look about this warning
only as a notification that something should be
suspected..but we cannot fear about the playability of the battle...
let me say this is a very intelligent approach to the problem...
And I am happy you are planning something more comfortable to save this concept..
I appreciate a lot the consciousness you have to keep a tournament free from cheating !
D_D we may test with my battle is the problem can be considered over ! also do you think we should invite all the members to install the PBEM's manager ?
Thank you to everybody !
Best Regards
Ruxius
[ August 30, 2001: Message edited by: ruxius ]</p>
I can say now the situation is much more clear..- players were suffereing more from spoiled games due to file mishandling than form cheats, so we removed the "lock ot" feature when errors occur and just left the noticies. IF you play an opponant that always has errors, then you may want to play someone else.
The tournament's master creates the game files..and he did some installation changes..also the third player was not the same as the first one...
that's why the message has been shown..
but you also said you removed the LOCK at the files..
when I first found this problem I lost the saved game files but I was playing the 5.0 version..maybe a version were the LOCK was still there..
Now in 6.1 we have to look about this warning
only as a notification that something should be
suspected..but we cannot fear about the playability of the battle...
let me say this is a very intelligent approach to the problem...
And I am happy you are planning something more comfortable to save this concept..
I appreciate a lot the consciousness you have to keep a tournament free from cheating !
D_D we may test with my battle is the problem can be considered over ! also do you think we should invite all the members to install the PBEM's manager ?
Thank you to everybody !
Best Regards
Ruxius
[ August 30, 2001: Message edited by: ruxius ]</p>
Italian Soldier,German Discipline!
Just right now (five minutes later...) I had the confirmation from my opponent that he is no more able to load my files..
We were playing a PBEM secure game..IT vs SO..it's the third time we play and all the three times I had this problem..the game crashed after turn 6 or better ..we can't load it anymore..
I really hope that I can get here some help or I have to stop playing any secure game with this player...
I report the problem :
we receive the security warning message...
After some turns..the player 2 in not able to load it anymore..
Paul is there a place where I can send these files to see what happened to them ? if they are truncated or what ? Is there a way we can bypass
this lock and load the files anyway ?
We are very sad we cannot play togheter..and also
I am worried for my tournament file...
My opponent says he never had this problem with other saved games..
All the posts I mailed in this forum now are valid again...I am sorry you wrote so a long answer before..but now the problem is back again...
I thought the question was only formal as you said that the lock was removed from the game..
but now we are over again...
what can I do ?
Any help to me is very appreciated from anybody..
PLEASE HELP ME MATES !
We were playing a PBEM secure game..IT vs SO..it's the third time we play and all the three times I had this problem..the game crashed after turn 6 or better ..we can't load it anymore..
I really hope that I can get here some help or I have to stop playing any secure game with this player...
I report the problem :
we receive the security warning message...
After some turns..the player 2 in not able to load it anymore..
Paul is there a place where I can send these files to see what happened to them ? if they are truncated or what ? Is there a way we can bypass
this lock and load the files anyway ?
We are very sad we cannot play togheter..and also
I am worried for my tournament file...
My opponent says he never had this problem with other saved games..
All the posts I mailed in this forum now are valid again...I am sorry you wrote so a long answer before..but now the problem is back again...
I thought the question was only formal as you said that the lock was removed from the game..
but now we are over again...
what can I do ?
Any help to me is very appreciated from anybody..
PLEASE HELP ME MATES !
Italian Soldier,German Discipline!
If a battle is prepared by player A and sent to players B and C to be played, I am positive that the "Security Violation" message will occur.
You may be able to do this with a scenario without incident.
Some things to consider are whether the OOBs in the scenario are the same as what you are using now. Easy to check by testing the scenario.
If players have been messing around with their OOB files, the violation message will occur.
If players have reinstalled the game or upgraded, the message will occur.
If a player starts a pbem battle, he is committed to staying with his corrent game version and OOBs. The only alternative I have found is to re-start.
The security program is a real pain at times but much preferable to being cheated.
My suggestion would be to play the tournament in the new V7 that is coming out. It is thought that SPWAW will be "matured" by then and further changes will not be rolling out of Matrix headquarters at such a blistering pace.
Myself, I am waiting for V7 before playing any more pbem. I just got very tired of error messages occuring in pbem games.
Hope this is a useful prospective.
You may be able to do this with a scenario without incident.
Some things to consider are whether the OOBs in the scenario are the same as what you are using now. Easy to check by testing the scenario.
If players have been messing around with their OOB files, the violation message will occur.
If players have reinstalled the game or upgraded, the message will occur.
If a player starts a pbem battle, he is committed to staying with his corrent game version and OOBs. The only alternative I have found is to re-start.
The security program is a real pain at times but much preferable to being cheated.
My suggestion would be to play the tournament in the new V7 that is coming out. It is thought that SPWAW will be "matured" by then and further changes will not be rolling out of Matrix headquarters at such a blistering pace.
Myself, I am waiting for V7 before playing any more pbem. I just got very tired of error messages occuring in pbem games.
Hope this is a useful prospective.
Hello 13z ,and thank you for your help..here is the situation
Ok ,Paul cleared this point..and I gave a reason to what happened into my first PBEM secure battle into the tournament..that battle is still on course..so I really hope at least we can end it without problems..
But What happened in the meanwhile ? I played another secure PBEM against David Miller..another player who is not a member of the tourney..so there is not a question of a third player..
That battle is over at turn 6 cause he is not able anymore to load the game files..
This was the third battle we fought each other..only the first laste to the end..I was able to read the statistics that time but I couldn't save the score...and send it to him...
This happened with ver 5.0 and also 6.1 and before and after I formatted my Hard disk...
He told me he has the same version as mine nowadays...he didn't do any OOB manipulation and also any mess about that OOB..
besides he told he had other PBEM with different players but this problem was not visible...
I thought it was a problem of mine..but other players reported here the same experience..
What can I do now ?
We played a battle , not a scenario
He assured me not ever doing nothing like that
The only exception to this may be the buttons onto the preference menu..but I am not sure that this will be responsible of any problem..
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with this point..we hope some day to be happy to play battles where victory is a REAL victory..any price will be happily paid to this cause from me..here I am only trying all the possibilities to see if I have a chance actually to play a secure PBEM !
We will surely update SPWAW when the version 7 will be available..
I hope that version 7 will work also to this point..if things will be the same..it will be
hard a free choice of the opponents...
Anyway I am still in pain..
[/b]Originally posted by 13Z:
If a battle is prepared by player A and sent to players B and C to be played, I am positive that the "Security Violation" message will occur.
You may be able to do this with a scenario without incident.
Ok ,Paul cleared this point..and I gave a reason to what happened into my first PBEM secure battle into the tournament..that battle is still on course..so I really hope at least we can end it without problems..
But What happened in the meanwhile ? I played another secure PBEM against David Miller..another player who is not a member of the tourney..so there is not a question of a third player..
That battle is over at turn 6 cause he is not able anymore to load the game files..
This was the third battle we fought each other..only the first laste to the end..I was able to read the statistics that time but I couldn't save the score...and send it to him...
This happened with ver 5.0 and also 6.1 and before and after I formatted my Hard disk...
He told me he has the same version as mine nowadays...he didn't do any OOB manipulation and also any mess about that OOB..
besides he told he had other PBEM with different players but this problem was not visible...
I thought it was a problem of mine..but other players reported here the same experience..
What can I do now ?
[/b]
Some things to consider are whether the OOBs in the scenario are the same as what you are using now. Easy to check by testing the scenario.
We played a battle , not a scenario
[/b]
If players have reinstalled the game or upgraded, the message will occur.
He assured me not ever doing nothing like that
[/b]
If a player starts a pbem battle, he is committed to staying with his corrent game version and OOBs. The only alternative I have found is to re-start.
The only exception to this may be the buttons onto the preference menu..but I am not sure that this will be responsible of any problem..
[/b]
The security program is a real pain at times but much preferable to being cheated.
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with this point..we hope some day to be happy to play battles where victory is a REAL victory..any price will be happily paid to this cause from me..here I am only trying all the possibilities to see if I have a chance actually to play a secure PBEM !
[/b]
My suggestion would be to play the tournament in the new V7 that is coming out.
We will surely update SPWAW when the version 7 will be available..
[/b]
Myself, I am waiting for V7 before playing any more pbem. I just got very tired of error messages occuring in pbem games.
I hope that version 7 will work also to this point..if things will be the same..it will be
hard a free choice of the opponents...
Anyway I am still in pain..
Italian Soldier,German Discipline!
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Paul Vebber
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- Contact:
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davidmiller
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2001 10:00 am
- Location: florissant, mo, usa
I have the privilege of being one of Ruxius opponents in PBEM games. The latest problem that we are having is I am getting a note stating "unable to load saved game" when I try to load the slot we have our game in. In previous battles, we have had the security violations also, but haven't seen any recently. I was under impression that possibly it could be my server, since some times when I start sending my reply or game turn, it starts relaying the info and then stops just before it reaches the end. I then resend it. I understand that he gets 2 copies now so I am assuming that that might be where the problem might be. If anyone else has seen this let us know. I use Outlook Express for Email and receive it via DSL connection. I have a pentium 4 with 256 MB Ram . I, so far have had no problems with SPWAW downloading it or playing games. It just seems to be when I am playing a pbem game against my friend in Italy.
rabid lobo
One time more AGAIN pleased by your attention Paul...you give us the hope we will finally can play a secure PBEM !
Now I am sending to you the files that originated the problem first..but if you need them to have a comparison I may send you the files after I tried to load them by myself..(and I too had the message failed to load ) or also the files of the turn before the problem occurred...
I am sending my password..Mister David will send you his own as soon as he will read about your answer...
We are VERY VERY happy that you care about this question !
Now I am sending to you the files that originated the problem first..but if you need them to have a comparison I may send you the files after I tried to load them by myself..(and I too had the message failed to load ) or also the files of the turn before the problem occurred...
I am sending my password..Mister David will send you his own as soon as he will read about your answer...
We are VERY VERY happy that you care about this question !
Italian Soldier,German Discipline!