Beta movie Potential problem with fortifications.

[kipanderson]

Erik,

The new beta movie is very impressive and certainly “wets the appetite” for the game.

However I did spot a potential problem.

In one of the sequences a T34 fires from behind a sandbagged fortification. I problem is that the sandbagged fortification protrudes from the surrounding landscape so… potentially… enabling the enemy to spot the fortification at great distance. This was the problem with the sandbagged emplacements in CMAK. They were part of the landscape, like buildings and trees, and so could be spotted at great distance.

In reality sandbagged defences were dug well into the ground, by WWII, we are really talking types of trench works, and if done correctly would not be spotted until very close.

Fortifications in PzC need to be such that they are not spotted until the enemy is close representing dug in troops. The fortifications in the otherwise great movie look more like Zulu Wars era fortifications [;)].

Not a problem as long as they are coded such that they cannot be spotted by the enemy until they are close or friendly troops open fire [:)].

All good fun,
All the best,
Kip.

[Erik Rutins]

Kip,

Thanks for your comments and interest.

ORIGINAL: kipanderson
The new beta movie is very impressive and certainly “wets the appetite” for the game.

Good to hear. [8D]

In one of the sequences a T34 fires from behind a sandbagged fortification. I problem is that the sandbagged fortification protrudes from the surrounding landscape so… potentially… enabling the enemy to spot the fortification at great distance. This was the problem with the sandbagged emplacements in CMAK. They were part of the landscape, like buildings and trees, and so could be spotted at great distance. In reality sandbagged defences were dug well into the ground, by WWII, we are really talking types of trench works, and if done correctly would not be spotted until very close.
Fortifications in PzC need to be such that they are not spotted until the enemy is close representing dug in troops. The fortifications in the otherwise great movie look more like Zulu Wars era fortifications [;)]. Not a problem as long as they are coded such that they cannot be spotted by the enemy until they are close or friendly troops open fire [:)].

This is unfortunately an issue with the first release as well, but it's not a long-term issue. Since the campaign we modeled for the first release was quite fluid, we decided not to spend any significant time on fortifications. There are a few, but it's the player's choice whether to use them or not. While the fortification may be spotted, they will still have to spot whether there's something actually behind it. If they choose to plaster it with artillery and direct area fire and it turns out to be empty, they'll just be wasting their ammo.

Our goal, as long as the first release does as expected, is to fully model all kinds of fortifications and obstacles in a future expansion.

Regards,

- Erik

[jeffthewookiee]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Kip,

Thanks for your comments and interest.

ORIGINAL: kipanderson
The new beta movie is very impressive and certainly “wets the appetite” for the game.

Good to hear. [8D]

In one of the sequences a T34 fires from behind a sandbagged fortification. I problem is that the sandbagged fortification protrudes from the surrounding landscape so… potentially… enabling the enemy to spot the fortification at great distance. This was the problem with the sandbagged emplacements in CMAK. They were part of the landscape, like buildings and trees, and so could be spotted at great distance. In reality sandbagged defences were dug well into the ground, by WWII, we are really talking types of trench works, and if done correctly would not be spotted until very close.
Fortifications in PzC need to be such that they are not spotted until the enemy is close representing dug in troops. The fortifications in the otherwise great movie look more like Zulu Wars era fortifications [;)]. Not a problem as long as they are coded such that they cannot be spotted by the enemy until they are close or friendly troops open fire [:)].

This is unfortunately an issue with the first release as well, but it's not a long-term issue. Since the campaign we modeled for the first release was quite fluid, we decided not to spend any significant time on fortifications. There are a few, but it's the player's choice whether to use them or not. While the fortification may be spotted, they will still have to spot whether there's something actually behind it. If they choose to plaster it with artillery and direct area fire and it turns out to be empty, they'll just be wasting their ammo.

And constructing empty fortifications to mislead the enemy definitely _did_ happen in the war, so this is realistic and historical.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

For the future I think the best way to represent fortification is to have troops or equipment sunk chest deep in a dirt coloured texture very along the lines of CM. But, of course, each to their own[;)].

The reason I prefer this methods is that within the limits of the possible it looks the most realistic. It breaks the immersive spell less than having fortifications sticking up from the ground in toy like fashion. When looked at from most view points the “sunk into the dirt” method does look very realistic.

Of course, the prefect solution would be to have the foxholes and trenches modelled in 3D but also sunk down into the floor of the level. But I understand that this is likely to be impossible so having the troops chest deep in a graphic of dirt coloured earth is probably the best way to go.

But you may have a more cunning plan than this which avoids the toy like, Zulu Wars era effect of placing trenches on top of the ground as opposed to in the ground.

All good fun,
All the best,
Kip.
PS. I do agree that mockups of fortifications were common place but still better to do this realistically.

[ravinhood]

Maybe this is a test run for when Koios does "Zulu at Rorke's Drift".

[jeffthewookiee]

PS. I do agree that mockups of fortifications were common place but still better to do this realistically.

As I understand it, the mockups were fully constructed alternative positions...

[Yoozername]

I would like the fortifications to have a level of doubt as to what they are. When spotting, each unit might not spot it the same way. One might identify a bunker, another may identify a trench/foxhole/etc.

This could be a reflection of their skill/HQ level.