Bug Discussion: satellite altitudes on ferry mission
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Moderator: Harpoon 3
Bug Discussion: satellite altitudes on ferry mission
Dear debuggers but especially DB owners:
Here is something I noticed (and reported) about satellite altitudes in ANW
Used scen Approach (Russian side). I can recommend this scen by the way [:)]
In it there are satellite start/end stations at edges of the map and a RORSAT is on a ferry mission from one to the other. Many designers have used this kind of setup to mimmick semi-realistic satellite recon. The scen was built with PlayerDB.
- In 3.6.3 the sat takes off, rises to about 140km altitude, and very slow descends as it crossed North to South. At that altitude RORSAT radar sweeps 400nm or so.
- In ANW (same scn, DB) the sat rises to 2010 meters (Med) and decends rapidly to 110m. Of course its radar horizon is now very small.
It was pointed out to me this is most likely a DB issue, but given the DB was identical, I suspect a difference in altitude behaviour of the take-off and then Ferry mission between ANW and 3.6.
Have other DB-owners/players seen such behaviour of Ferry missions with Sats?
The manual seems to suggest Ferry missions go High, and that would certainly be most appropriate I think; for example for passenger planes like 747 on Ferry. So solution and improvement for many (if not all) ferry missions is to change its behaviour to stay at high altitude for most of its course. No idea how hard this is; and I understand it is fully up to AGSI/Matrix.
Hope that on something technical, non controversial and cross-DB the various enthausiasts of the game can make a joint recommendation to Matrix/AGSI?
Regards Freek
Here is something I noticed (and reported) about satellite altitudes in ANW
Used scen Approach (Russian side). I can recommend this scen by the way [:)]
In it there are satellite start/end stations at edges of the map and a RORSAT is on a ferry mission from one to the other. Many designers have used this kind of setup to mimmick semi-realistic satellite recon. The scen was built with PlayerDB.
- In 3.6.3 the sat takes off, rises to about 140km altitude, and very slow descends as it crossed North to South. At that altitude RORSAT radar sweeps 400nm or so.
- In ANW (same scn, DB) the sat rises to 2010 meters (Med) and decends rapidly to 110m. Of course its radar horizon is now very small.
It was pointed out to me this is most likely a DB issue, but given the DB was identical, I suspect a difference in altitude behaviour of the take-off and then Ferry mission between ANW and 3.6.
Have other DB-owners/players seen such behaviour of Ferry missions with Sats?
The manual seems to suggest Ferry missions go High, and that would certainly be most appropriate I think; for example for passenger planes like 747 on Ferry. So solution and improvement for many (if not all) ferry missions is to change its behaviour to stay at high altitude for most of its course. No idea how hard this is; and I understand it is fully up to AGSI/Matrix.
Hope that on something technical, non controversial and cross-DB the various enthausiasts of the game can make a joint recommendation to Matrix/AGSI?
Regards Freek
RE: Bug Discussion: satellite altitudes on ferry mission
I'd like satellites platforms/units with real behaviors if possible [:)] The satellites in the DB now are really "aircraft" units mod'd to behave like satellites. So changing the behavior of mission meant for an aircraft (like your 747) for the sake of making a satellite work isn't ideal as you may screw up aircraft behaviors.Although if no addition is possible making it work like 3.6. might be nice and make folks happy.
As far as the manual most of the mission behaviors reflect 3.6. As far as I know no additions have been made for 3.7 behaviors. My guess is AGSI/Matrix might take on the endeavor as soon as they figure out what the behaviors are and whats changed.
As far as the manual most of the mission behaviors reflect 3.6. As far as I know no additions have been made for 3.7 behaviors. My guess is AGSI/Matrix might take on the endeavor as soon as they figure out what the behaviors are and whats changed.
RE: Bug Discussion: satellite altitudes on ferry mission
Can you help me out with some of the terminology - CEC and SO?
Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home
RE: Bug Discussion: satellite altitudes on ferry mission
Dale:
SO - special operations... you mean it in a land warfare sense?
by the way... is 3.8 going to include waypoints for cruise missiles?
would be also nice to have a new Air Tasking Order and improved flight/strike planning functionality... I remember there was a good brainstorming session regarding this aspect a few yearsago over the HHQ... I wasn't even a Harpoon 3 owner back then but enjoyed the thread and the article that appeared in Waypoint magazine nevertheless.
cheers,
-E
SO - special operations... you mean it in a land warfare sense?
by the way... is 3.8 going to include waypoints for cruise missiles?
would be also nice to have a new Air Tasking Order and improved flight/strike planning functionality... I remember there was a good brainstorming session regarding this aspect a few yearsago over the HHQ... I wasn't even a Harpoon 3 owner back then but enjoyed the thread and the article that appeared in Waypoint magazine nevertheless.
cheers,
-E
RE: Bug Discussion: satellite altitudes on ferry mission
Special Operations forces are currently abstractly modelled as weapons, usually delivered from submarines and aircraft. The plan is to further expand upon their concept and if possible flesh them out in a more realistic manner.
Waypoints for cruise missiles are a bit further down the priority stack at the moment, regretably.
OTOH, a new ATO & strike planner are among the hot items under consideration. I have something "in the shipyard" that works as a separate application and allows useful things like combat range, endurance & flight duration calculations depending on a user-selected mission profile & loadout. Not quite as integrated with the sim as most would like but it's a start [:)]
Waypoints for cruise missiles are a bit further down the priority stack at the moment, regretably.
OTOH, a new ATO & strike planner are among the hot items under consideration. I have something "in the shipyard" that works as a separate application and allows useful things like combat range, endurance & flight duration calculations depending on a user-selected mission profile & loadout. Not quite as integrated with the sim as most would like but it's a start [:)]
RE: Bug Discussion: satellite altitudes on ferry mission
Thanks for the information guys...
you threw a few bits of information in there that now has me wondering...
let's begin:
Dimitris' strike tools:
those sound very interesting... however I can't see any download link [:D] [;)]
are those for in-house use until mature enough for release? are they being developed by yourself for AGSI or as a HHQ product? what about the tools per se... are they a stand alone program, a prototype for later integration with the H3 game engine or an access/excel kind of tool?
Screenshots please!! [:D]
Dale:
special operations sound promising... the capability of deattaching/spawning units from a "parent" unit will sure help implementing mine warfare. Hope it makes it into 3.8, like you mentioned above.
However the more interesting aspect of this is the amphibious operations. I understand it is beyond Harpoon's scope to model land warfare, but modeling an amphibious disembark and "taking a beach" requires land opponents and their respective AI logic, so you may end up developing and modeling lots of things just to accomplish that...things that maybe make the jump into full scale modeling of land warfare a matter of one or two releases. Hey now! try to get funding for developing those aspects from a military customer and backport it into the public version [;)].
I don't own the Harpoon rules books so I'd like to know if they model amphibious assaults or any kind of land warfare?
Thanks for reading
cheers,
-E
ps: hope waypoints for missiles become a reality in 3.8...
you threw a few bits of information in there that now has me wondering...
let's begin:
Dimitris' strike tools:
those sound very interesting... however I can't see any download link [:D] [;)]
are those for in-house use until mature enough for release? are they being developed by yourself for AGSI or as a HHQ product? what about the tools per se... are they a stand alone program, a prototype for later integration with the H3 game engine or an access/excel kind of tool?
Screenshots please!! [:D]
Dale:
special operations sound promising... the capability of deattaching/spawning units from a "parent" unit will sure help implementing mine warfare. Hope it makes it into 3.8, like you mentioned above.
However the more interesting aspect of this is the amphibious operations. I understand it is beyond Harpoon's scope to model land warfare, but modeling an amphibious disembark and "taking a beach" requires land opponents and their respective AI logic, so you may end up developing and modeling lots of things just to accomplish that...things that maybe make the jump into full scale modeling of land warfare a matter of one or two releases. Hey now! try to get funding for developing those aspects from a military customer and backport it into the public version [;)].
I don't own the Harpoon rules books so I'd like to know if they model amphibious assaults or any kind of land warfare?
Thanks for reading
cheers,
-E
ps: hope waypoints for missiles become a reality in 3.8...
RE: Bug Discussion: satellite altitudes on ferry mission
Freek Schepers made up a simulated beach landing in his Old vs. New battleset. It is the third scenario of the group. You can get it on StrategyZoneOnline
It requires the PlayersDB and has not been tested for Harpoon ANW, yet. It has been tested for v3.6.3.
It requires the PlayersDB and has not been tested for Harpoon ANW, yet. It has been tested for v3.6.3.
RE: Bug Discussion: satellite altitudes on ferry mission
There's a reason I said "in the shipyard" [:)]ORIGINAL: evaamo2
Dimitris' strike tools:
those sound very interesting... however I can't see any download link [:D] [;)]
Developed by yours truly, tested in-house and then released to the community freely. This has been the standard path for all utilities & applications developed in the past and it's worked well.are those for in-house use until mature enough for release?
HHQ-hosted product, freely available.are they being developed by yourself for AGSI or as a HHQ product?
Probably web application similar to (and probably tied to) the online encyclopedia already present at HHQ. Not yet pretty enough for screenshots [:D]what about the tools per se... are they a stand alone program, a prototype for later integration with the H3 game engine or an access/excel kind of tool?
Screenshots please!! [:D]
RE: Bug Discussion: satellite altitudes on ferry mission
Sounds promising... didn't know it was going to be a web enabled app tho'.
Yeah I'm familiar with that approach... just pushing luck for a community beta kind of release [;)]
Well... we software developers usually suck at UI design ... so don't let that hold your release back [:D]
thanks for the answers... like I said, sounds promising.
cheers,
-E
ORIGINAL: Sunburn
Developed by yours truly, tested in-house and then released to the community freely. This has been the standard path for all utilities & applications developed in the past and it's worked well.
Yeah I'm familiar with that approach... just pushing luck for a community beta kind of release [;)]
Not yet pretty enough for screenshots
Well... we software developers usually suck at UI design ... so don't let that hold your release back [:D]
thanks for the answers... like I said, sounds promising.
cheers,
-E
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