Ok guys need some opinions

[Alby]

These items

3)Reduced hex radius of secondary damage applied from attacks to units in the same or nearby hexes (the random artillery splash radius has been reduced).
4)Reduced effect of secondary damage to units in the same or nearby hexes from direct fire attacks (firing direct fire at unit and hitting other units in hex has been reduced, somewhat).



What changes would the players like to see, if any
Or would the players rather leave it as it is in 8.403.

I know it seems to be affecting arty effectivness somewhat so i personally would like to see it tweaked up some more.

also need some opinions on this item
the ‘splash’ from air-dropped weapons, which wipe out entire squads with one bomb.


Opinions please...[:)]

[soldier]

3: I like the way that direct fire (supposedly more accurate) from SP SIg guns is handled now. They used to kill more enemy in adjacent hexes. However indirect artillery fire seems to have lost its "beaten zone" effect as if shells were always landing dead centre of a hex and not affecting surrounding enemy. If it could be increased for indirecrt fire.
4 : Seems to work pretty well.

Dive bombers should be a more accurate way of delivering HE to a target than a Howitzer but they still miss so much. They are expensive, rare assets, only get one shot, are vunerable and give away your force positions in two player games. If they didn't cause all that carnage I'd never buy them.

[BruceAZ_MatrixForum]

Good thread!

I have always felt the old saying that the true Queen of the Battlefield was artillery. [&o]

In my opinion, their effectiveness in SPWAW is too limited. In real life, a good artillery barrage will stop a determined attack - cold. Look at all of the history books and reports about their effectiveness. If I remember correctly, the USAAF stopped a major German tank attack using medium and LR bombers during the later battles in Normandy. I am sure there are others too numerous to mention here.

I can also testify their effectiveness in real life. You are heavily suppressed and movement is very limited, if at all. The only time I have ever seen someone or thing (as in track or truck) running through a artillery, rocket, or mortar barrage was in the movies.

I can also attest to the effectiveness of Marine Air support as nothing is more terrifying than seeing two Phantoms rolling in at Mach I and dropping 1,000 lb bombs 2,000 yards from your position. Scared the hell out of you. We didn’t move for over 30 minutes just adjusting our ears and lungs to the overpressure. Needless to say, their targets just vanished.

My 2 cents? Crank 'em up but also increase their cost significantly and appropriately. I hate to see a SPWAW weapon that can really turn the tide for one side but they are very effective! The only way you can offset this is to jack up the cost to make them available but at a price.

Recon
Semper Fi

[Goblin]

Alby, you have permission to post my private email comments about my experience with the KV 2 tank, if you like.


Goblin

[Swamprat]

3)Reduced hex radius of secondary damage applied from attacks to units in the same or nearby hexes (the random artillery splash radius has been reduced).
4)Reduced effect of secondary damage to units in the same or nearby hexes from direct fire attacks (firing direct fire at unit and hitting other units in hex has been reduced, somewhat).

I would like to see secondary damage from indirect fire taken back to what it was. Direct fire should see reduced secondary damage in neighbouring hexes, but it's ok in the same hex.

The splash from air attacks is also fine. They are one shot weapons and they are supposed to be frightening. Ironically this splash is more effective against infantry, even though aircraft target vehicles.

The cost of the heavier artillery and aircraft carrying 1000lb bombs maybe should be raised, but that is an OOB issue, not a mech issue.

That's my opinion anyway.

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Alby, you have permission to post my private email comments about my experience
with the KV 2 tank, if you like.


Goblin

Quoting Goblin...

"KV-2, with crew experience of 92. 6 Rounds of 'Z' fire into a
woodland (non-fortified) hex with German troops (suspected experience
around 80), range 6 hexes. No casualties with 6 rounds of 152mm HE at 6
hexes. 8 more rounds of direct fire into hex after German unit spotted. No
main gun casualties at all. 3 MG casualties. Total of 14 rounds of 152mm
high explosive into a non fortified hex, and I killed 3 guys with
machineguns, with a very experienced crew. All at 6 hexes or less.
Something wrong with this picture? After 14 rounds into a 50 yard hex, it
isn't even a forested hex anymore (its a smoking moonscape with shredded
tree-stumps), and the enemy should all have died from heart failure at the
very least. Arty set to 160 effectiveness.
It should at least cause suppression.
I am ok with it not doing so, just pointing it out.
If it hits the actual hex with a squad in it, there should not be a squad in that hex any longer.
Same with that 600mm mortar.
Try and get a casualty with that, or with a 210mm or 220mm.
The same problem exists with even 75mm armed tanks. Almost no
casualties to infantry unless ungodly close with the main gun, especially
with average crew skills in the game, and most kills come with the
machineguns, even on sighted targets.
If the tank crew can see the target,
a 75mm round should cause a casualty more often than not. The casualty rate
on a 150 or 152 should be 2 or 3 or more if the crew can see the target.
They don't have to hit a man, they have to hit his hex, and everyone in that hex is in trouble.
These are not little guns."

[FNG]

I'm having a rare battle against the Japanese with a British core force. I strung some wire along a hilltop and zeroed my artillery on the wire before starting the game. Since the Japanese hit the wire, I have hammered them with on-board 4.5" howitzers, 3" mortars and off-board 25 pounder troops. These are open hexes, no trees, nothin', and I have hardly scored a casualty with artillery. Vickers HMGs and Brens have been stacking them up like cordwood....

Something isn't right with artillery.

[Riun T]

Heres my nickels worth, in my 13 years as a DEMTEC for the canadian forces I've spent 8 of that in and around Dundurn CFB saskatchewan which was an aireal test range in the second WW and progressed to an Artillery ,AT and small arms range. In this job I got to measure,catalog, and photograph alot of various damage assessments of most of the calibers and ordinance this post involves. A 75 with HE on a groundlevel or shallow penetrating touchoff will make an approx.6-8 foot wide crater, 2-3 feet deep, and will disperse debris of no more than 5 pin bowlingball sized chunks for say 15-45 feet of plausable killing range. Now keep in mind that I'm only conveying basic data on a ground detination, if we where to get a vehicleladden fuel and ammo secondary explosion[X(] WELL we'll see, anyway. A 105 on the otherhand will make a30-50 foot wide crater of 12-18 feet deep, WILL throw whole tanks! { in my case witnessed a complete M113 APC from a range of 2000yrds be thrown a good 70-100 yards from its restingplace and completely squashed itself flat upon landing} and as I saw will cast multi TONned vehicles for a football field!!. And finally the range was limited to 250ld bombs from 41-46 and I looked up enough exsamples to say definitively that just a 250lder will make a20-50 YARD wide crater, 5-9 YARDS deep, and is capable of heaving locomotive engine sized debris a 1/4 mile or more !! MAKE YOUR OWN JUDGMENTS GUYS I HAVE NO STATS FOR ANYTHING LIKE A 1000LDer RT[:'(]

[FNG]

Man, that sounds like a sweet job [:D]

[Riun T]

IT WAS sonny IT WAS.RT

[VikingNo2]

I think its was good the way it was.

[terbare]

I believe your on the right track with the changes you made with the direct fire artillery, so often I have more effect on the adjacent hexes than on the target hex. I also have seen planes win a scenario by wiping out both sides simultaneously by bombing right thru the middle of the battle. I would also like to see in the Long Campaign that the AI get heavier caliber guns for the Russians , I have played up to 1943 and never saw a larger caliber than a 76mm bombarding me, where is Stalins "god of war".

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: terbare

I believe your on the right track with the changes you made with the direct fire artillery, so often I have more effect on the adjacent hexes than on the target hex. I also have seen planes win a scenario by wiping out both sides simultaneously by bombing right thru the middle of the battle. I would also like to see in the Long Campaign that the AI get heavier caliber guns for the Russians , I have played up to 1943 and never saw a larger caliber than a 76mm bombarding me, where is Stalins "god of war".

This can be fixed by providing more AI-only formations, as long as enough slots exist. The AI purchase schemes are a tricky business.

[sabrejack]

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Arty set to 160 effectiveness.

I assume this is in 8.403?

Just from this post alone, surely there's a good case for the effectiveness to be bumped up for the next update?



By the way - any word on what the next update will be called (v8.5 etc?), and is there any (vague) timeframe for it yet?

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: sabrejack

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Arty set to 160 effectiveness.

I assume this is in 8.403?

Just from this post alone, surely there's a good case for the effectiveness to be bumped up for the next update?



By the way - any word on what the next update will be called (v8.5 etc?), and is there any (vague) timeframe for it yet?

Answers (IMHO):

1) Yes, due to player requests

2) Yes

3) No

[PimpYourAFV]

I oppose any reductions to arty and bomb splash damage. I like it the way it is now and reducing it would just take the fun out of the game. Arty is impotent in the game compared to reality unless turned up to at least 140/140 so making it even weaker is not a good idea. Bombing is quite destructive if it hits just right but so it is in real life, and bombers are quite limited in the game already so if anything I'd like to see them able to do more bombing runs. Like medium and heavy bombers, nobody ever uses the level types cause they are considered useless. I use them if available cause I don't play perfectly optimally and just wanna have fun.

[Goblin]

Tokyo,

It already was reduced. The reduction seems to have a secondary effect that is undesirable, as described in my email to Alby, posted above, plus artillery seems next to worthless right now.





Goblin

[PimpYourAFV]

Goblin, much power to you in your efforts to fix it. Arty is very important to me cause I tend to use a lot of WW1 type units and 'tactics' (if you could call them that).

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

ORIGINAL: terbare

I believe your on the right track with the changes you made with the direct fire artillery, so often I have more effect on the adjacent hexes than on the target hex. I also have seen planes win a scenario by wiping out both sides simultaneously by bombing right thru the middle of the battle. I would also like to see in the Long Campaign that the AI get heavier caliber guns for the Russians , I have played up to 1943 and never saw a larger caliber than a 76mm bombarding me, where is Stalins "god of war".

This can be fixed by providing more AI-only formations, as long as enough slots exist. The AI purchase schemes are a tricky business.

There is an AI formation with 122MM in it
it has used it against me
LOL
Think theres a 152 in one also

[m10bob]

What changes would the players like to see, if any
Or would the players rather leave it as it is in 8.403.

From a prior post:

From "real life" experience:
Steel Panthers in any version has been weaker than circus lemonade.
(I always increase the factor to approx 130% against soft targets and at least 110% against hard targets to compensate.)
The current version has weakened the mortars (apparently) and the snipers are useless dolts all over again.
Real units continue to carry 60mm mortars because they work and are accurate, completely the opposite of the misrepresentation in SP).
Same with rifle grenades.
Nothing against SP..It's a game


New comments:

I saw a B 52 drop a string of 500 Lb bombs a mile away from my guys.
The ground shook and you can see the bombs "eating" the air in the vicinity.
(Up close, this will suck the air out of a mans lungs and cause them to collapse.)
There is actually a wave caused from each bomb which can be seen, very distinctly.
After the planes left, we cautiously walked in.
Any survivers we found were either walking away crying and in total shock, or on the ground, cringing in fetal positions, etc, crying.
These fellas were probably a block away from the bombs.
Nothing closer was living.
When that 'wave" goes out, it is the explosive breaking the sound barrier, (as I understand it), and the concussion (concussive effect) literally tears the flesh from bone.
This causes as much damage as any shrapnel, (on a bomb of this size.)
The 1,000 lb bomb was very common as well, but the ones I saw were 500 lb. I verified this later.
Maybe Flash or somebody who knows bombs can tell you what kind they were, but it was a horrific example that "close" counts in these things as well.
IMO, to "lessen" the splash effect of bombs of this size is going in the wrong direction.
My opinion is of course slanted...