Do the French Really exist?

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: madmickey

The vast majority of French Canadian were against Fighting on the allied side in WWII. They thought it was an English war.

But you have to speak french to work at the war museum!!![8|] What a mockery of a country Canada has become. I wonder where all the balls went?

[Ron Saueracker]

Biggest question is, where are the massive civilian populations which effect the logistical model? A few wacky pompous piano players in Noumea pale in comparison.

[niceguy2005]

OK, this is supposed to be a thread mainly about the design of WitP.

IT IS NOT a thread about nationality. Please refrain from making any comments that are pro or anti French or any other nationality. Purely historical notes on French participation in the war are greatly appreciated, but please do not editorialize on the French themselves or about any other political matter.

[Jean Bart]

Just to add my modest point of view about French forces in Pacific during WWII.
Indo China fell under japan administration after armistice signed with Germany in 1940.
Not to willing to develop a Vichy topic, where there s lot to say. Vichy French army adopted an official neutral position.. Vichy objective was to regain territorial integrity of the French empire. But in reality, many members of Vichy government were, unofficially supporting axis side.
Few territories, like new Caledonia, joined the free French side but truly until beg of 43, political strength of De Gaulle government was very weak and fully dependant of british support.
Speaking of French pilots, most of the members of Normandie Niemen squadron fighting on the soviet side were coming from IndoChina . When Japanese noticed that many pilots fled to Burma and China to join the free french side, they only allow married French pilots to fly mission when keeping as hostage their family.
After landing in North Africa in Nov 42, Vichy government ceased to exist since all overseas territories were under control of allied forces and Germany invaded south part of France which were under Vichy Administration.
In 1944, when France was liberated and, after De Gaulle manage to avoid an american administration of France, French government has much political power. But if French army was now fully involved in allied operations against germany in Europe, there were still some political conflicts between USA and France. Just remember that for US government the only official representative of France was Vichy and Free French troops/government only a bunch of adventurers until end of 43…
FDR had clearly mentioned his willing to free colonized countries, and like our british friends, at this time, such speech was not very easy to hear.
Thus, when victory seems obvious against axis forces, including Jaqpan, with allied troops closing to indo china borders, French government asked for an uprising of our troops still based in IndoChina to free the area with only French power., thus to avoid any potential pressure of US government about status of IndoChina after the war.
But information/beliefs about japan army status was wrong, and instead of a unorganized, starving, demoralized, they fight fierce fighting troops. In a couple of weeks, French troops have been overwhelmed and crushed, leaving a big empty space for implementation of viet minh guerrilla, which was by the way supported and supplied by US…

To add a comment about french Canadian troops; city where I grew up and the area around, French northern coast on the English channel have been liberated by Canadian army and its Regiment de La Chaudiere, a very famous french Canadian regiment who fought very hard battles there. There s plenty military cemeteries in north of france for allied soldiers who fought and fell during WWI and WWII, and be sure that popular memory does not forget sacrifice of each them.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Jean Bart

Just to add my modest point of view about French forces in Pacific during WWII.
Indo China fell under japan administration after armistice signed with Germany in 1940.

No! In June 1940 Japan demanded that Vietnam stop supplying resources to China along the Tokin route. General-Governor Catroux had been denied support from both the United States and Britain. This forced him to give in to the demands of the Japanese. The Vichy government was not pleased with Catroux's actions, so he was replaced by Admiral Jean Decaux. Not long after their first demands had been fulfilled, the Japanese ordered control of Tokin as well as the use of all of the air bases in Vietnam. The Nazis ignored the Vichy's plea for help and Vietnam was weakening. Japan saw this as an opportunity to take advantage so they convinced Thailand to request the return of land in Cambodia and Laos, which they had lost earlier that century. France was also weak and had no choice but to allow Japan to arbitrate the dispute. The result was land for Thailand and 80% of Vietnam's rice exports for Japan!

In 1941 Japan solidified their control over Vietnam and the Vichy government quickly signed all of Vietnam's rice, rubber and mineral exports away to Japan.

ORIGINAL: Jean Bart
After landing in North Africa in Nov 42, Vichy government ceased to exist since all overseas territories were under control of allied forces and Germany invaded south part of France which were under Vichy Administration.

Vichy government existed until 1944 (even after Normandy invasion) - it existed in Indochine until 1945. On March 9, 1945, Japan ended French rule in Indochina: Shortly before midnight on March 9 Japanese soldiers entered the governor general's palace and arrested Admiral Decoux....

[Oliver Heindorf]

can we take the political things to the steakhouse please.

In Witp I wonder why the French arent there too as far as I remember New Caledonia was part of the Free French under De Gaulle.

[Kereguelen]

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

can we take the political things to the steakhouse please.

In Witp I wonder why the French arent there too as far as I remember New Caledonia was part of the Free French under De Gaulle.

If I remember correctly, the only Free French unit in the Pacific (stationed at New Caledonia) was the Marine Fusilier battalion. But this unit eventually moved to North Africa (don't know at which time) and was later employed in the build-up of Free French forces. Otherwise (I think) there were only some local militia/police troops at Noumea.

K

[m10bob]

Since WITP mainly deals with Rgt's and higher, the French *active* presence in the entire theatre is negligable.
The fact that a French destroyer was included is both accurate and fair on the part of Matrixgames.

[SurrenderMonkey]

Nice sig, Roman. [:)]

[BossGnome]

whats up with this "steakhouse" place? [&:] It seems very popular with everyone here...

[Przemcio231]

Well its a place where you can throw Mud on some one and you will not be kicked out of the Forum[:)] or something like that[:D]

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Dont forget about Richelieu.

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

Dont forget about Richelieu.

Vincent Price was the best Richelieu IMO.

[Fishbed]

Thus, when victory seems obvious against axis forces, including Jaqpan, with allied troops closing to indo china borders, French government asked for an uprising of our troops still based in IndoChina to free the area with only French power., thus to avoid any potential pressure of US government about status of IndoChina after the war.
But information/beliefs about japan army status was wrong, and instead of a unorganized, starving, demoralized, they fight fierce fighting troops. In a couple of weeks, French troops have been overwhelmed and crushed, leaving a big empty space for implementation of viet minh guerrilla, which was by the way supported and supplied by US…

Wrong [;)], as Kereguelen said, the Japanese took over the sovereignty attacking french garrisons, there was no uprising. Then after, remaining troops retreated to the jungle, pursued by japanese, and for some of them manage to reach safely China.

[2ndACR]

ORIGINAL: BossGnome

whats up with this "steakhouse" place? [&:] It seems very popular with everyone here...

Here is the link to the steakhouse...............there are sub forums that are "nice all the time" and then there is the Saloon where just about anything goes. No one has ever been banned from the Steakhouse.

http://www.madcowssteakhouse.com/

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

can we take the political things to the steakhouse please.

In Witp I wonder why the French arent there too as far as I remember New Caledonia was part of the Free French under De Gaulle.

The Vichy French were not modeled because it was felt that they were not a factor during the War in the Pacific (Japan vs Allies) starting in dec 41.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

can we take the political things to the steakhouse please.

In Witp I wonder why the French arent there too as far as I remember New Caledonia was part of the Free French under De Gaulle.

The Vichy French were not modeled because it was felt that they were not a factor during the War in the Pacific (Japan vs Allies) starting in dec 41.

Thanks Nik. I thought this made sense. I was just confused initially by the existance of french pilots and squads in the resource pool (now explained). I knew so little about the war outside of the central pacific when I started playing the game that I actually thought the troops in the DEI were Free French. [8|] Which is a part of the reason I wanted to play this type of game and get involved in a forum. A much more interesting way of learning about some history than reading a dozen history books.

[Tophat1815]

Don't get me started about the French,Indo-China and the definition of the word Ally.

[Fishbed]

Don't get me started about the French,Indo-China and the definition of the word Ally.

Well help yourself, but tell us first who you're gonna bash like q bad boy... [;)]

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: SurrenderMonkey

Nice sig, Roman. [:)]

Hi, Roman is Lt Calley. I wouldn't have noticed but he kept his old sig and number two pic.