Unit Depictions on Screen

[wodin]

Ive seen some counters planes for WiF that look fantastic. WIll the counters in the computer version be just as good?






http://perso.wanadoo.fr/froon/WiF/counters/index.htm

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Ive seen some counters planes for WiF that look fantastic. WIll the counters in the computer version be just as good?






http://perso.wanadoo.fr/froon/WiF/counters/index.htm

My goal is better.

The screen shot you showed has an out-of-date counter sheet (1996). MWIF is using copyright 2003 for countersheet #1.

I have the program capable of displaying the high resolution air unit counters, and I'm waiting on the artist to provide the bitmaps. He, in turn, is waiting on Harry Rowland to provide him with the most recent versions of the master computer files for the counter sheets. Once I get a couple dozen of the bitmaps, I'll post screen shots.

[pak19652002]

Yummy!

[Manic Inertia]

Um, with the planes looking so good and all, is it possible the land units might look a bit crummy by comparison if they don't get touched up with a sort of 3D effect?

[wodin]

I also think the counters look very.........flat. They seem part of the map rather than ontop of it.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

I haven't posted any screen shots for a while so here is one - truly a work in progress.

I am finishing up the first version of MWIF to upload for the beta testers, so this is just what I could produce in 10 minutes. It needs many corrections.

What stimulated me to post this is that I just recieved the 2nd pass on the high resolution air and naval units from the artist, without anti-aliasing. The bitmap images from the artist are clean.

The program is still writing F5, N5, and L5 on the counters which is easy to remove - and I will once the 1st beta version is done.

The status boxes at the top impinge on the graphics. I expect I will move the status boxes higher, to give the graphics the full 96 by 96 pixels of the counters.

The square colored boxes need to be removed and the location of the numbers adjusted so they fit within the circles. What I will probably do is take a generic circle from the artist and have the program place it - that way I will know that the number is centered in the circle every time.

We also need to figure out how to capture the bitmap image from the original counters such that it uses the maximum amount of the space available without obscuring the numbers.

Finally, the text (unit name) is part of the bitmaps at present. I will probably go with having the program generate the name on the fly. At lower zoom levels the bitmap text disappears very quickly.

Other changes are: the rivers have been cleaned up and the icons for resources have lost their numbers, when there is only one resource in the hex.

[wodin]

Needs work but looking good so far.

Is there no way to try and make the chits less flat?

[JagdFlanker]

a simple suggestion might be to add a single black line on the bottom and RHS, indented in 2 pixels. just a slight hint of a shadow! i included a second example with a second black line indented in 4 pixels to add even more thickness as an option.

i did a prntscrn then put it in an editor at 16 colours to simplify it so sorry it's simpler in colour than the original!

[JagdFlanker]

a gentleman named cobra has been creating absolutly stunning artwork for War in the Pacific - since he's already done a pile of WW II aircraft you might consider asking him to do your counter artwork for you!

here's a sample:

[c92nichj]

looks nice

[Froonp]

I haven't posted any screen shots for a while so here is one - truly a work in progress.

I am finishing up the first version of MWIF to upload for the beta testers, so this is just what I could produce in 10 minutes. It needs many corrections.

What stimulated me to post this is that I just recieved the 2nd pass on the high resolution air and naval units from the artist, without anti-aliasing. The bitmap images from the artist are clean.

Thanks !
As this is a work in progress, we can't really say anything, except that it looks promising.
One thing I can say is (except for the 3-D thing for counters [;)]) : You should not make the bitmap touch the border of the counter. The bitmap sould be more "inside" the imaginary square formed by the numbers that are in the corners.

[tigercub]

truly stunning his artwork![X(]

[JagdFlanker]

another idea when showing the counters on the map might be to have only the unit pic and the unit name showing (eg - the Me-262 pic and name - no stats), and when you hover the mouse over any counter the ikon grows to a single clear size with all the stats on it (mabe press down the shift key at the same time so it doesn't enlarge at annoying times - just when you want to). and if you zoom waaaaaay out to a more strategic view then have just the pic on it - no name. that way no matter what size the counter is when you are zooming the map in or out you can get the info off it quickly and clearly just by hovering the mouse over it (and mabe pressing the shift key)! it's not like you need ALL the info for ALL the counters right in front of your face, and it will make it easier to fit a stack of counters in a hex (assuming you can stack - i'v never had the pleasure of buying or playing this game but i'v always wanted to SOOOO bad!)

just a thought - it's a pain trying to fit lots of info in a tight space, especially when there's lots of zoom levels and everyone uses a different screen resolution!

[wodin]

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader

a simple suggestion might be to add a single black line on the bottom and RHS, indented in 2 pixels. just a slight hint of a shadow! i included a second example with a second black line indented in 4 pixels to add even more thickness as an option.

i did a prntscrn then put it in an editor at 16 colours to simplify it so sorry it's simpler in colour than the original!

BINGO!

[wodin]

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader

a gentleman named cobra has been creating absolutly stunning artwork for War in the Pacific - since he's already done a pile of WW II aircraft you might consider asking him to do your counter artwork for you!

here's a sample:

Beautifull!

Can we please, please........

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader
a gentleman named cobra has been creating absolutly stunning artwork for War in the Pacific - since he's already done a pile of WW II aircraft you might consider asking him to do your counter artwork for you!

here's a sample:

They certainly are pretty.

I have some problems with doing something comparable though.

(1) The first image (upper left corner) is 149 by 79 pixels. I only have 96 by 96 pixels to work with. Going to a larger size would reduce the number of hexes visible on the screen at higher resolution.

The second set of images (overhead views) are closer to the size MWIF uses. Comparing them with the larger side views, you can see the loss of detail in the markings. The artist is using very nice shadowing effects to display structural contours. He is also using anti-aliasing to get the sharp deliniations between the gray planes and the blue sky. Anti-aliasing has two problems that I have already run into for MWIF: (a) it does not scale well at all - zooming out makes the images get really weird, (b) the background color can not change - this means that the background colors for the units would have be driven by the color used for the air unit bitmaps. The naval bitmaps would have to use the same color too.

(2) MWIF contains over 1200 air units, with 500+ of them unique plane types. That's a lot of bitmaps to create at this level of detail.

They sure are pretty though.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader

another idea when showing the counters on the map might be to have only the unit pic and the unit name showing (eg - the Me-262 pic and name - no stats), and when you hover the mouse over any counter the ikon grows to a single clear size with all the stats on it (mabe press down the shift key at the same time so it doesn't enlarge at annoying times - just when you want to). and if you zoom waaaaaay out to a more strategic view then have just the pic on it - no name. that way no matter what size the counter is when you are zooming the map in or out you can get the info off it quickly and clearly just by hovering the mouse over it (and mabe pressing the shift key)! it's not like you need ALL the info for ALL the counters right in front of your face, and it will make it easier to fit a stack of counters in a hex (assuming you can stack - i'v never had the pleasure of buying or playing this game but i'v always wanted to SOOOO bad!)

just a thought - it's a pain trying to fit lots of info in a tight space, especially when there's lots of zoom levels and everyone uses a different screen resolution!

I come from the world of playing WIF over the board. What that typically entails is studying the units on the map to decide which ones should go where. A lot of time is spent going through both your own and the enemy's land and air units to see who can move where to attack and defend. There are not as many counters in a theater of operations in WIF as in some other WW II games, but there are still quite a few. Very difficult to keep track of them all when they are in stacks and only the top unit visible.

I mention this as background for responding to your suggestion to leave the numbers off the units. You really need to know what the numbers are to make decisions. Examining a combat situation with all the numbers missing, and only visible when passing the cursor over the units, is going to really slow down playing the game. I can't really see any situation in the game where I would want to toggle the screen display to remove the numbers.

Toggling the screen display to remove the artwork and leave only the numbers - that I do plan to do. So that zooming out will still let you see the numbers clearly and plan your moves accordingly.

I haven't make any firm decisions on the medium and low resolution images for the units. First I want the high resolution images defined. When I do get to working on the medium and low resolution counters, I'll solicit input from everyone and try to pick the best of those ideas for MWIF.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: wodin

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader

a gentleman named cobra has been creating absolutly stunning artwork for War in the Pacific - since he's already done a pile of WW II aircraft you might consider asking him to do your counter artwork for you!

here's a sample:

Beautifull!

Can we please, please........

Ah, yes. The word beautiful is more appropriate than pretty.

This goes against one of my fundamental principles: "Do not change design decisions once they have been made".

The decision on how to render the graphics for the units was discussed back in July and August (2005) and the decision was to use the counter sheets that came with WIF FE - or as close to them as possible. That decision then drove the decision on the size of the hexagons. From there we decided on how to render the map elements: terrain and icons. I recoded the routines that draw the map and the units based on those decisions.

To change one of the fundamental design decisions has repercussions throughout the develpoment process. As one obvious point, the estimated costs for creating the graphics and the schedule for releasing the game would be significantly impacted.

Sadly, there are going to be more of these items that will come up. The world is not a stagnant place and some of the changes are actrually improvements. For example, the world of computers in general and computer graphics in particular is a'bubble and a'pop with faster, cheaper, and more features.

You can't keep changing your soxes, or you'll never get your shoes on.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: wodin

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader

a simple suggestion might be to add a single black line on the bottom and RHS, indented in 2 pixels. just a slight hint of a shadow! i included a second example with a second black line indented in 4 pixels to add even more thickness as an option.

i did a prntscrn then put it in an editor at 16 colours to simplify it so sorry it's simpler in colour than the original!

BINGO!

You guys certainly are pushing for this aren't you?

Personally, I am ambivalent about 2 1/2 D effects like shadowing. I typically go for flat images when given the choice for a user interface.

But I am not creating this game for me. I am doing it for you - that is the global you, not the individual you. Which means I do respond to public opinion, albeit slowly and often reluctantly.

I need to rethink what to do about the status boxes at the top, and I'll check out what shadowing looks like when there are 1, 2, 3, 4 units in a hex - at different levels of zoom. If I do use shadowing, it will likely only be a high zoom levels (5, 6, 7, 8), and will use a double thickness (2 pixels) because the single thickness disappears when you zoom out even a single level (i.e., 8 to 7).

[macgregor]

Count me as ambivalent as well. Low zoom could benefit from having maximum pixels for the image. No?