What good is a Walrus

[Hipper]

This is tickling a vague memory I have of reading an article about this. Didn't the RN have plans for the Spitfire early on, but it go defeated by the Navy beuruacracy and they got Fulmars instead. As I recall there were a lot of politics that slowed the arrival of the Spits.

The early seafires were canceled by the air ministry, Lord Beverbrook had been moved to the Ministry of aircraft production to improve fighter production in early 1940 and sea spitfires were one low priority item that was cancelled !

Blame the observer mafia in the admiralty for the fulmar

Hipper

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

ORIGINAL: m10bob

was just doing some basic research on the Walrus and found out that it was made by Supermarine. That makes it kissing cousins with the Spitfire. Who'd of thought that

The progenitor of the Spit was also a floatplane ! (Supermarine Racer).

This is tickling a vague memory I have of reading an article about this. Didn't the RN have plans for the Spitfire early on, but it go defeated by the Navy beuruacracy and they got Fulmars instead. As I recall there were a lot of politics that slowed the arrival of the Spits.

And some sense. Spitfires without folding wings would have had to stay in the deck park and be exposed to salt. Not a great idea during peacetime given the way the UK Government spends money on things that don't obviously need fixing.

[Hipper]

And some sense. Spitfires without folding wings would have had to stay in the deck park and be exposed to salt. Not a great idea during peacetime given the way the UK Government spends money on things that don't obviously need fixing.

The plans were for the spitfires to have folding wings, I don't think the work got as far as a prototype before the project was cancelled.

cheers

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: herwin

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

ORIGINAL: m10bob


The progenitor of the Spit was also a floatplane ! (Supermarine Racer).

This is tickling a vague memory I have of reading an article about this. Didn't the RN have plans for the Spitfire early on, but it go defeated by the Navy beuruacracy and they got Fulmars instead. As I recall there were a lot of politics that slowed the arrival of the Spits.

And some sense. Spitfires without folding wings would have had to stay in the deck park and be exposed to salt. Not a great idea during peacetime given the way the UK Government spends money on things that don't obviously need fixing.

The article I read, I can't begin to remember where now, hinted that it was primairly internal politics in the Navy that caused the cancellation of the Spitfire. The company that made the Fulmar, can't recall who now, had strong connections to the Navy. However, the first planes delivered under-performed in many important areas and while the company managed to fix this problem in some later versions I think motivated the Navy to look elsewhere for the next fighter.

This discussion just wets my apetite for a Mediteranian version of WitP. For while the Fulmar was Zero bait, how did it fair against the Italian AF. Better I suspect.

[KofK]

It was Fairey who built the Fulmar.

[Hipper]

For while the Fulmar was Zero bait, how did it fair against the Italian AF. Better I suspect.

The Fulmar was the most successfull FAA fighter in terms of numbers of aircraft shot down (claimed)

not bad for a dive bomber !

[Reg]

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

I was just doing some basic research on the Walrus and found out that it was made by Supermarine. That makes it kissing cousins with the Spitfire. Who'd of thought that. [:)]

Not only was it made by Supermarine.... it was built in the same factory.

Caption was: Spitfire fuselages under construction at Supermarine's Itchen plant in 1939. Walrus amphibians can be seen in the background.

[String]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Base them at an island with an AV. Japanese AV can't operate unless they are at a base with supply they just get to carry the ac to the new location. It's best to off load them before using them. Japanese CS can operate while underway. There are a number of Japanese AV with a load value of 1. These are best used to support Patrol planes or float planes the only difference is they can't carry a group to the base. (1 float plane is not much use)

Um are you QUITE sure? I seem to recall operating japanese AV (the ones with 8-12 capacity) based floatplanes out in the open sea many times.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Hipper

And some sense. Spitfires without folding wings would have had to stay in the deck park and be exposed to salt. Not a great idea during peacetime given the way the UK Government spends money on things that don't obviously need fixing.

The plans were for the spitfires to have folding wings, I don't think the work got as far as a prototype before the project was cancelled.

cheers

Folding wings were extra weight and engineering hassle--I can see why the prototype was cancelled. The Japanese had folding wing-tips on the A6M2, and removed them on later models. The folding wings on the F4F4 reduced its effectiveness in combat.

[herwin]

Take a look at my rating for the Fulmar. That was based on operational statistics.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Hipper

For while the Fulmar was Zero bait, how did it fair against the Italian AF. Better I suspect.

The Fulmar was the most successfull FAA fighter in terms of numbers of aircraft shot down (claimed)

not bad for a dive bomber !

Actually a two-seated fighter-bomber. At the beginning of the war, over-water flight in single-seaters was dangerous due to the chance of getting lost. The USN was still into 2-seater fighters with a dive bombing capability in the early thirties. The second set of hands was to help navigate, scout, and run the radio.

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Base them at an island with an AV. Japanese AV can't operate unless they are at a base with supply they just get to carry the ac to the new location. It's best to off load them before using them. Japanese CS can operate while underway. There are a number of Japanese AV with a load value of 1. These are best used to support Patrol planes or float planes the only difference is they can't carry a group to the base. (1 float plane is not much use)

Um are you QUITE sure? I seem to recall operating japanese AV (the ones with 8-12 capacity) based floatplanes out in the open sea many times.

String, you are correct, the large AVs are indeed able to operate their floatplanes while at sea.

[Mynok]

ORIGINAL: String

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Base them at an island with an AV. Japanese AV can't operate unless they are at a base with supply they just get to carry the ac to the new location. It's best to off load them before using them. Japanese CS can operate while underway. There are a number of Japanese AV with a load value of 1. These are best used to support Patrol planes or float planes the only difference is they can't carry a group to the base. (1 float plane is not much use)

Um are you QUITE sure? I seem to recall operating japanese AV (the ones with 8-12 capacity) based floatplanes out in the open sea many times.

I had this discussion a few months ago and ran some tests. AV planes will fly while underway.

[Herrbear]

ORIGINAL: herwin

Take a look at my rating for the Fulmar. That was based on operational statistics.

Where can one find your rating of the Fulmar?

Thanks.

[herwin]

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

ORIGINAL: herwin

Take a look at my rating for the Fulmar. That was based on operational statistics.

Where can one find your rating of the Fulmar?

Thanks.

Fighter factors were assigned to aircraft and pilots with a factor difference of 2 corresponding to an exchange ratio of 2-1. Operational experience showed that the pilot factor increased by about 0.5 per combat survived for the first eight combats. After that, there was no significant change.

Top speed was most important, with a 90% ratio of top speeds corresponding to a 2 point factor difference. Manueverability (maximum turn rate) generally made a difference of less than 2 points. The following values were based on a detailed analysis, but as they say, cum grano salis.

0: Roc, Skua
1:
2: Sea Gladiator
3: SBD
4: Bf110F, A6M as kamikazi, A6M2N, Fulmar, Val, F2A, A5M
5: N1K1
6: Ki-43, A6M2, FM2, P70, De520, F4F3, F4F4, Sea Hurricane, BTD
7: P40B, P40E, A6M3, A6M6c, Hurricane IIB
8: Spitfire I, II, Bf109E, P40N20, A6M5, P39Q, Bf109T, LaGG3, Ki-100
9: Seafire IB, Bf109F, Spitfire V, Ki-84, A6M8, Ki-45, N1K1J, J2M, Ar240A, F6F3, Ki-44, P61A
10: Bf109G, Yak9T, F6F5
11: Fw190A, Spitfire 9, P38L, A7M, P47D, F4U1, F4U4, F7F, La5FN, MiG3, He100D
12: Typhoon, P51D, Fw190D, F4U5, F8F
13: Tempest V, Ta152, Ar240C
14:
15: He162 (speed alone)
16: Me262A (speed alone)