Combat Mission blows this game out of the water

[ioticus]

I agree with Ravenhood. The AI in CM was terrible and particularly craptastic on attack. I kept buying their games and hoping in vain that the AI would improve but it never happened. I played Tin Soldiers and was very impressed with the AI. I'm hoping Koios' skill in AI programming will carry over to Panzer Command and finally deliver a challenging single-player tactical WW2 game.

[elmo3]

I've played all three CM titles to death against the AI and in PBEM and had a blast doing it. Looking forward to this new title with a different approach.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

No one is more of a fan of CM than I, was a CM beta tester for the last two versions and followed it from ’99 onwards.

However… as Battlefront move on to the second generation engine that fact that others produce a game with some of the same look and feel as the first generation CM engine can only be good news for fans like me. I look at it as by the summer being a “product improved CMX1” over here to play with plus the second generation CM from Battlefront. All good news.

However, over on the FAQ thread I have posted about the dreaded “Absolute and Relative Spotting” issue which I hope Eric will answer.

Having been on CM so early I can also visualise how the graphics will improve from the Alpha version of Panzer Commander… it is all good news.

All the best,
Kip.

[Andreas1968]

Like Kip I am one of BFC's beta testers for CMBB and CMAK, and I still have several PBEMs on-going in both. I think this looks like a very interesting project, and I hope it works out well. Looks good from what is discernible at this stage.

Now, can we have a Balka screenshot?

All the best

Andreas

[Mad Cow]

CM's AI was terrible.

But with clever scenario design it could be overcome, I have played some very challenging AI scenarios.

Anyways, the AI in nearly every wargame I have ever played was pretty much subpar.

2 player is always where it is at for a real battle, which is why CM is loved so much byme and others even with the glaring AI problems.

[ravinhood]

Same here, I'm not saying the Combat Mission series suks. By no means. I still greatly enjoy the engine. Ai's have always been an issue since the dawn of computer gaming. I'm just saying CM series AI just wasn't "perfect" heh. Through difficulty adjustments I can make games either attack or defense or meeting that can sometimes turn out to be draws or a loss or a minor victory. Now, while the AI is still pretty horrible at tactics, certainly the ole "beating the odds" game is still there. That's really why I still enjoy the single player of the Combat Mission series. At least Battlefront does give the player many OPTIONS to increase difficulty, even if it is overwhelming odds. I've learned to accept this is a very good way to increase longevity of most games anyways. Give the AI more and the player less. Tactically it fails, but, numbers wise it can still put out a victory from time to time and draws. I feel I got a challenging game if I end up with only a minor or draw or a loss. Even if the Ai does suk. But, it has improved somewhat from CMBO, at least now it places edge of the map units whereas it didn't before.

My concern with the AI for Panzer Command is that it at least will have some program to hold positions if it's winning with only a few turns to go. Where objective flags will have less importance when it is winning. Cause that was the big issue with the CM series AI, even when it was winning, if there was an objective flag to be gotten, it would come out of entrenched postions to try to take them. Thus going from a winning situation to losing nearly everytime.

PC doesn't have to be Combat Mission. As long as the AI is as at least as good as in the other Tin Soldiers series of games. If PC turns out to have an excellent AI or at least a good one. Then we can start pestering them to give us FULL FRONTS like the Combat Mission series hehe.
I just hope they don't turn on us like Creative Assembly did us with Rome Total Crap War. After Medieval Total War was soooooooo good. I could just choke them for releasing that RTS kiddie clickfest that was RTCW.

[wodin]

Panzer76,

The title to the thread you started was "Combat Mission blows this game out of the water".

This comment implies youve played BOTH games and CM beats it hands down. Our question to you is how can you have played both with Panzer Command isnt even in BETA yet?

You could have just asked "What are the differences between CM and PC"?

If I was the developer of a wargame and before it was even released people where slaging it off I would find it very demoralising.

If your a true wargamer then you should be supporting all indy developers, even if you dont buy the game at least post something positive on the forums. You may think CM will "blow it out of the water" but making a comment like this doesnt help anyone niether you or the developer.

REMEMBER PC game sales are dying in the mainstream and if we want our hobby to continue on the PC we need these indy developers to continue aswell as make the wargame community developer freindly.

[old man of the sea]

what Wodin said.....

E

[Erik Rutins]

Agreed on that as well!

[RyanCrierie]

Well, a little competition for the boys at Battlefront.com can't hurt. BFC hasn't really had any competition with their CM titles yet; so this will be good for all involved.

[pad152]

Two things I see this game has over CM.

Maps, screen shots from the www.koiosworks.com, and Strategyzoneonline web sites look great, the one from strategyzoneonline has a train in it?

Selection of Ammo types, this is something I wish the CM games had!

[Andreas1968]

ORIGINAL: RyanCrierie

Well, a little competition for the boys at Battlefront.com can't hurt. BFC hasn't really had any competition with their CM titles yet; so this will be good for all involved.

And the BFC guys do agree with that:

Originally posted by Moon:
I'm with Kip. After, what, six years, it's about friggin' time. Although, of course, this isn't the first such attempt.

Good luck to them!

Martin

Martin/Moon is the president of BFC, IIRC.

All the best

Andreas

[pvthudson01]

ORIGINAL: Panzer76

ORIGINAL: Brindle
my guess would be 'a brain'

How is that so? Have I not raised valid questions? Seeing this is your second post on the forums, perhaps your 1st was of equal value?

Hey, Im all for more choices, more choices is good. But nothing Ive read about this game so far makes me believe that it will be better than CMBB. And, for *me*, then it just aint gonna fly, why play the 2nd best when you can play the best?

Only thing I can imagine is that people looking for a less complex game than CMBB will perhaps find this better. Like a introduction to the 3D wargamer genere. If that is the target audience, then clearly Im not in it.

the problem is you are reading and making a flat out general statement on something you cannot back up

plus you are trolling

[ASHBERY76]

The interface of CM is dreadfull.I'm hoping this game has a good UI and is fun.

[sapper_astro]

I love Combat mission.

But did i hear someone say that this game here would be like Close Combat?

I love Close Combat more than i love Combat mission.

So, after venting that i must ask, how is this upcoming title going to be like Close Combat?

Panzer general 2 was pretty fun in its day, what Panzer general elements will be included?

[Erik Rutins]

Sapper,

Well, ultimately this game is like itself - what a useless answer, I know, but it has element that were certainly influenced by Combat Mission, Close Combat and Panzer General. We're in very early beta, so I hope to be able to show off some more of that soon, including some in-game movies and AARs.

Regards,

- Erik

[Panzer76]

ORIGINAL: pvthudson01
the problem is you are reading and making a flat out general statement on something you cannot back up

plus you are trolling

I made a statement about what I think would be true and welcomed feed back to convice me otherwise. As for the troll part [8|]

[TSCofield]

I have been a fan of both companies for quite a while now. I did the reviews for the Combat Mission series (CM was the first review I did for SimHq) and I have had nothing but high praise for all three games. CMAK I thought was getting a little long in the tooth and stretched the engine to its max but it was still highly entertaining.

Battlefront is an excellent company. Matrix is an excellent company. Instead of bashing either one we should be praising them. When Talonsoft closed its doors a lot of folks thought that this was the end of wargames. Most 'mainstream' developers were shying away from wargames like they now are with combat simulations. Battlefront, HPS and Matrix jumped into that void. These companies recognized the potential from such games and took advantage of the vacuum to create some really memorable games.

Its ok to be critical of aspects of games, even developers but lets face it, if Battlefront or Matrix hadn't decided to buck the convential wisdom and risked the chance of failure trying to sell these games then none of us would be playing games like Steel Beasts, War in the Pacific, Combat Mission or Steel Panthers. This isn't a competition, there is room for both companies. I have told developers to talk to both companies before. Whether they have or not I don't know but I still talk both groups up.

[invernomuto]

DOH! I've just discovered this interesting game. I spend too much time on WITP forum [:D]

This is not an Anti-CM game. We are not a Anti-CM or Anti-Battlefront company. We respect their work and enjoy their games - who knows, perhaps someday we can convince them to do a joint project on something.

That would be great!

Bye

[thrakaandy]

Hello...

I enjoyed CMBO the most and found the 2 other titles as rubber stamps with tiny tweaks to the graphics engine. BB was pretty good because it did offer a "new" side to CM, but AK held no interest for me. CM does seem too involved and my father (who absolutly LOVES the CC series and loves realism) cannot stand the UI for CM and doesn't play it for that simple fact.

But I agree that PC will be different from CM (especially having a mini map, THANKS!!!!!!!!!) and i'm happy for that. We dont need another rubber stamp CM, besides, there is WW2RTS for that