Should we fix CD units?

[Mike Scholl]

WARRIOR What's really interesting about the OB's you quote is how far they are from those in the game. Several of us have posted such info as you present, so it couldn't be that hard to come by. Makes you wonder just how much research the 2by3 team did before they decided just to make it up. And it makes one suspect all the other information included in the game. Nice set of posts. Coast Defense Study Group?

[bradfordkay]

"I think if you check you will find that those 2 "covered" 16" guns and the 4 6" guns an Los Angeles were installed during the war and weren't there on December 7th."


He didn't say those guns were at Los Angeles. They were west of Port Angeles (which is on the Strait of Juan de Fuca across from Victoria, BC), at Cape Flattery - the corner of the Olympic Peninsula.

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

"I think if you check you will find that those 2 "covered" 16" guns and the 4 6" guns an Los Angeles were installed during the war and weren't there on December 7th."


He didn't say those guns were at Los Angeles. They were west of Port Angeles (which is on the Strait of Juan de Fuca across from Victoria, BC), at Cape Flattery - the corner of the Olympic Peninsula.

Which, btw, were not installed till 1944, I was misreading my own notes. There was, however, a 4 gun battery of 155mm at Port Angeles, not to be confused with the city of lost angels.

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

WARRIOR What's really interesting about the OB's you quote is how far they are from those in the game. Several of us have posted such info as you present, so it couldn't be that hard to come by. Makes you wonder just how much research the 2by3 team did before they decided just to make it up. And it makes one suspect all the other information included in the game. Nice set of posts. Coast Defense Study Group?

Yes, a very useful site. I plan on eventually purchasing the CD's they have. Having visted the three main forts in Puget Sound it would have been better to land somewhere els and capture them with a land unit. With their ability to triangulate and the narrowness of the channel I would not like to have been aboard any ships trying to traverse. So in some situations CD guns can be very deadly. Now, when the japanese cruisers and battleships shelled Guadalcanal they fired outside the effective range of the 5" CD guns emplaced there. Not many CD guns can outrange the larger artillery aboard BB's, adn those that can are not usually found on an atoll.

[el cid again]

WARRIOR What's really interesting about the OB's you quote is how far they are from those in the game. Several of us have posted such info as you present, so it couldn't be that hard to come by. Makes you wonder just how much research the 2by3 team did before they decided just to make it up. And it makes one suspect all the other information included in the game. Nice set of posts. Coast Defense Study Group?

About October or November Andrew decided to fix this for CHS - and Hawaii, San Francisco, Fort Stevens (Columbia River) and Manila Bay were corrected. [So was tiny Rabaul with 2x6inch]. And the major Japanese sites also. I have done the same for RHS - since I didn't see Andrew's data for a long time. BOTH the new release of CHS and RHS will have some of these corrections. Andrew also did the Panama forts for CHS since he added Panama. Now we have this data for other sites (and Panama) I may be able to add it - or if AkWarrior has it done I would just import it. [I think there are no guns Colon side in Panama as Andrew did it. Possibly because no Axis ships can appear there!]

[el cid again]

Having visted the three main forts in Puget Sound it would have been better to land somewhere els and capture them with a land unit.

I always felt the proper invasion point is the dual ports of Hoquiam/Aberdeen. Nice, sheltered ports with a good road NE to Olympia, Washington, and another S to Astoria, Oregon. The Columbia river - with its high and long bridge - would be a formidable thing to attempt - so I would go NE - and threaten Tacoma. In mechanical games of great complexity I always land raiders here and tell them they are to gather intel for an invasion to follow - so they will say that if captured!
Not that an invasion is following - but I want the Americans to divert major assets there - instead of somewhere else! Better than defending some part of the Pacific I care about.

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Having visted the three main forts in Puget Sound it would have been better to land somewhere els and capture them with a land unit.

I always felt the proper invasion point is the dual ports of Hoquiam/Aberdeen. Nice, sheltered ports with a good road NE to Olympia, Washington, and another S to Astoria, Oregon. The Columbia river - with its high and long bridge - would be a formidable thing to attempt - so I would go NE - and threaten Tacoma. In mechanical games of great complexity I always land raiders here and tell them they are to gather intel for an invasion to follow - so they will say that if captured!
Not that an invasion is following - but I want the Americans to divert major assets there - instead of somewhere else! Better than defending some part of the Pacific I care about.

The beaches on the Pacific Ocean side are pretty rough ith large wave actions But yeah, Aberdeen would an excellent location and except for some hilly and wooded terrain west and north of Olympia the terrain is ideal for invasion straight into Puget Sound. The Army did put is some temporary CD units there, but they were relatively weak and would not have been of much value in a real invasion attempt. However they would be effective against raiding attempts.

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Having visted the three main forts in Puget Sound it would have been better to land somewhere els and capture them with a land unit.

I always felt the proper invasion point is the dual ports of Hoquiam/Aberdeen. Nice, sheltered ports with a good road NE to Olympia, Washington, and another S to Astoria, Oregon. The Columbia river - with its high and long bridge - would be a formidable thing to attempt - so I would go NE - and threaten Tacoma. In mechanical games of great complexity I always land raiders here and tell them they are to gather intel for an invasion to follow - so they will say that if captured!
Not that an invasion is following - but I want the Americans to divert major assets there - instead of somewhere else! Better than defending some part of the Pacific I care about.

The Atlantic forts are as impressive as the Pacific and should rightfully be included. When they were first designed Germany was a big concern, but under the Rainbow War Plans everyone was a potential enemy.

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I may be able to add it - or if AkWarrior has it done I would just import it. [I think there are no guns Colon side in Panama as Andrew did it. Possibly because no Axis ships can appear there!]

I am in the process of modifying the US LCU's for CHS and I will send you a revised copy of the data files and documentation. Some of what I have added pertain to forces stationed at the canal. I will post to the forum my list of changes, and the rational for the cahnges, when I comlete the documenting (which is more time demanding than the actual changes..sheeez!), hopefully by Sunday evening as I have to get back to doing my Thesis work...

[el cid again]

The Atlantic forts are as impressive as the Pacific and should rightfully be included. When they were first designed Germany was a big concern, but under the Rainbow War Plans everyone was a potential enemy.

If there is no way for a game Axis ship to get to Colon, why waste a slot on CD units to oppose it? This is a serious query: should not things Atlantic side just be related to air or ground attack? I see no way for any Axis ship to get there.

[el cid again]

I am in the process of modifying the US LCU's for CHS and I will send you a revised copy of the data files and documentation. Some of what I have added pertain to forces stationed at the canal. I will post to the forum my list of changes, and the rational for the cahnges, when I comlete the documenting (which is more time demanding than the actual changes..sheeez!), hopefully by Sunday evening as I have to get back to doing my Thesis work...

Good - as with your US Army units - and other things by others - I will adopt what someone has done instead of doing it all myself...

[Mike Scholl]

"Never interrupt an enemy when he is making mistakes."
Napolean Bonaparte

Note to ALASKAN WARRIOR. The quote you cite was made by the Emperor as he observed Wellington's troops assuming their positions along the ridge at Waterloo. Probably not Napoleon's finest piece of prognostication. If you're a big fan of Napoleon's, you might want to pick one of his better efforts.

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

The Atlantic forts are as impressive as the Pacific and should rightfully be included. When they were first designed Germany was a big concern, but under the Rainbow War Plans everyone was a potential enemy.

If there is no way for a game Axis ship to get to Colon, why waste a slot on CD units to oppose it? This is a serious query: should not things Atlantic side just be related to air or ground attack? I see no way for any Axis ship to get there.

Okay, first of all there are more slots than one perceives. Many of the empty slots available are place holders (at least 174 by counting empty and place holding in CHS V1.6) to aid in bookkeeping. Examine the database and you will see what I mean. Do we really need a reminder that the follown units are initially set up at XXXX or that arrive in XXXXXX date? There additional slots available if Fixed CD units are consolidated into one unit if they are in the same hex. So in my humble opinion there are plenty of slots available.

Second, since the Panama Canal is on the map then it better be worth a large amount of VP's, especially if BOTH ends of the Canal are occupied. One only has to think of the Political, Economic, and Military repercussions. So maybe you might not see a reason for it but I do and feel it is worth including. If the overall consesus is that there should not be a CD unit there then reinforce the Base unit or eliminate the location from the map! I for one would like to see the capture of Panama City trigger reinforcements to appear at Cristabol.