Ok guys need some opinions

[Afrika Korps]

Although I am still learning how these number actually effect gameplay when changed, one thing I have problems with is that in some instances, say long campaign and some scenarios (not all), Japanese morale seems too low. IJA troops suffered 99% casualties, not by routing and running away, but by giving no quarter or ground, even when completely surrounded (fighting until that Flamethrower literally burned them alive). In SPWAW, most of the casualties I get is when the unit routs and runs away--then it gets cut down without firing a shot. Dug in on those islands, they usually didn't run. Take Saipan....4000+ soldiers Banzai charged into HMG fire and made it to the front lines and had a mixed melee with the USMC...they all got creamed, but they did make it in. I don't see how I could do that in SPWAW...

[Riun T]

I see and like alot of the points being mad in these posts, but am haveing a hard time figuring out why the #'s for morale and experience are such a hard pill to swallow for some of the members who are obviously more able to change them to their like. I get on grief or glory in what any of those #'s mean when I'm fighting a battle Its up to me to watch all their progress and put squads or platoons further back in the line if their performence is'nt giving them improvement its up to my positioning of them to protect them threw enough battles for them to gain these #'s . RT

[Goblin]

How many battles to get a Rumanian unit just up to Green level? 15-20? Maybe more if they don't gain every time. Up to Experienced (which they probably would be after 15-20 or more battles!)? 40? Veteran? 70? Elite? Maybe a 100? I submit this is in no way realistic. That 'elite' class units in these nations are far worse than even the worst Major nation's troops is also not realistic.

The problem with changing the numbers (currently anyways) to whatever you like is that all 3 stats change to the same number as base. Set it at 60, they are all 60. So if I wish to simulate a battle hardened Rumanian unit that actually stood and fought in the war, I would want their morale at 70+, with their experience at maybe 60-65, and their leadership at 50 or so. Green Japanese troops might get a 90 morale, 50 experience, and 60 leadership. I would have to set all the Rumanian stats at what the morale should be, to get it up there, and same with the Japanese stats. Mike is going to fix this, but that's where the hubbub is coming from.

I just sent an email where I stated that deer and rabbits would stay in a fight longer than the nations in this game (and they are not armed).


Goblin

[Afrika Korps]

The main reason I don't change the stats myself is for several reasons:

1. I don't understand enough about the stats to make realistic changes

2. I don't want to get used to fighting the AI with one set of stats, then do a PBEM game and get handed my butt because I rely on those stats to play tactically "my way", which is not the "official version" or what the playerbase agrees is acceptable.

3. I don't want too "gamey" a feel. I want as realistic as possible within the SPWAW game construct.

4. I am waiting for the wiser players and Mike to work it out. [;)]

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: Goblin

How many battles to get a Rumanian unit just up to Green level? 15-20? Maybe more if they don't gain every time. Up to Experienced (which they probably would be after 15-20 or more battles!)? 40? Veteran? 70? Elite? Maybe a 100? I submit this is in no way realistic. That 'elite' class units in these nations are far worse than even the worst Major nation's troops is also not realistic.

The problem with changing the numbers (currently anyways) to whatever you like is that all 3 stats change to the same number as base. Set it at 60, they are all 60. So if I wish to simulate a battle hardened Rumanian unit that actually stood and fought in the war, I would want their morale at 70+, with their experience at maybe 60-65, and their leadership at 50 or so. Green Japanese troops might get a 90 morale, 50 experience, and 60 leadership. I would have to set all the Rumanian stats at what the morale should be, to get it up there, and same with the Japanese stats. Mike is going to fix this, but that's where the hubbub is coming from.

I just sent an email where I stated that deer and rabbits would stay in a fight longer than the nations in this game (and they are not armed).


Goblin

I agree..Not all nations trained equally well, (which would tie in with "experience", but its' pretty much a matter of public knowledge whether a nation actually wanted to participate, which I feel is more a "morale" factor, than one of "experience".
Most of us have felt many of the smaller nations have been short-changed.
With an option to put foreign allies in your unit, it would be nice to get some soldiers, and not girl scouts from West Virginia, (or wherever).

[azraelck]

Girl scouts bleed for 5 days and don't die. I seriously doubt that the minor nations' could match that in SPWaW.

[Alby]

ok this thread was started to get opinions about the splash damage and in hex arty damage...there are plenty of other threads about the ratings and at least one or 2 other concerning the snipers.

back back back...on topic...
[:D]

[azraelck]

Agreed. now about them Snipers....

[8D]

[264rifle]

Is it possible that the Aircraft bombs are under valued (at least the big ones) and some artillery is over valued????

According to Dragoon 45 it is possible for a 1000 lb to cause damage at 1200 meters. While this may very well be true ( I will accept this as a given. I wasn't there and I have never been in a like situation) it would make for a lousy game to implement it. One air strike affecting things in a 48 hex diameter circle[X(] Maybe spash damage should be extended to three or four or five hex radius for the big stuff. with a corresponding increase in points for purchase. other suggestions????

Getting back to artillery it would take about 500 75mm shells all going off at the same point with in milleseconds of each other to make a bang this big. While dealing with the game ( and small shells) we might want to think about what was likely vrs what is possible. WWII grenades were dangerous (even lethal) at over 200yds under exactly the right conditions. I don't think we want to try to put that in the game.[;)]

Even naval gun fire looks a little weak compared to Aircraft bombs. American Naval common shells (non armour piercing)holding about 5.5-6% explosive by weight and High capacity shells ranging from 12.6% (6in, 105 lb) to 8.08% (16in, 1900lb). Maybe they penetrated earth better to make a larger crater than a shallow depth explosion.[&:]

I am assuming HE contents of up to 50% for aircraft bombs.

Just trying to see if we are comparing apples to big apples or apples to tomatoes[;)]

By the way, a 1938 Navy table commented that in general bombs could not be expected to reach terminal velocity ( 900-1000 ft per sec), as they would not be dropped from a high enough altitude: around 19,000 feet being required. Also, due to Fragmentation and blast envelopes, it was considered inadvisable to bomb BELOW 3000ft for the high- fragmentation heavy case 1000lb bomb, or below 1500ft for light case bombs. (See Dragoon 45's post).

I kind of would like to see the splash damage fade off with distance. Losing more men in a hex two hexes away from the explosion than you lose in the hex with the explosion does seem a little strange. Not impossible, just strange if it happens too often.

Maybe the 75mm artillery needs a boosted firing rate and more ammo. Many 75mm artillery pieces could fire at double or more of the rate of the 100-105 howitzers.

Given the scale of the game maybe some of this stuff as to be represented in an abstract form[&:]

[bud]

after my numerous posts on the 8.403 artillery effectiveness and multiple ( and i mean MULTIPLE ) attempts at adjusting the % on soft and hard target " hitting/damage" settings , i believe a compremize is needed --- 1 - yes splash damage was out of control in 8.4 -- and mike made an adjustment ( thz mike ) to splash -- but the problem i beleave is the actul " hitting hex" where the damage varies - ( most of the time no effect on units ) - SO -- what can be done to get some splash damage back - and more inportant -- what will it take to get damage to the target hex higher ???? --- this way we can all go back to the same settings for artillery -- and to a higher degree , back to a 3 dimentional game where you basically know that some damage will affect the hex`s that have been hit with artillery before you move into them --- and as i posted in past messages --( there seems to be no difference on the caliper that hits the hex , as much as how many times it hits the same hex ) - -- sure hope am in the right post for this topic Alby -- lol -- your favorite " GUIMEA PIG " ----------------- (a.k.a. ICED ) ------------------[;)]