I have offered to go back one day but PZB (on past exchanges) doesnt like doing things like that It still confuses me as to why he risked all for a few transports its that more than anything I am struggling to comprehend he must have known that the Marianas and attacks on the Palaus were coming why risk his precious counter attack weapon ah well
Andy
Why on earth would you offer to go back one day? There was no glitch or gamey outcome: he tried to do a sneak attack on you, failed and lost all his carriers. If your carriers hadn't been nearby (or had been out of op points) and he had sunk most of your transports, do you really think he'd be offering to go back one day because you left your vulnerable ships uncovered? After the slapping around the allies have gotten in this AAR, Feb 1944 is a time when the allies can start counting on things going their way. I think it's a bit cheap for the japanese players to throw in the towel after rampaging around and having their fun for a few years and then giving up. There are victory conditions and with 18 months to go, it might still be hard for you to acheive them as he controls India and China. Many people have commented on how everything in the first year goes the Japanese way and everything pretty much goes the allies' way in 1944-5 (although in the Dude-Zeta 'Hirohito' AAR the Japanese did ambush a bunch of US CV's off the coast of Korea in late 1945...)
I second this "motion". You should not replay it since he did took an gamble and paid for it.
As said it seems to be that once allied player will get strong enough to revenge things the Japanese players do throw towel quite easily.
If we were to go on I question if this would make an Indian Adventure practical !!!!
I reckon I would need 6 ish Divisions to take out Bombay I am looking around to see if Icould find that kind of firepower (and more importantly shipping) if I had to.
The allies now have about 4 Inf Divisons in Iraq and 6 Armoured Bns so enough reinforicing troops are waiting that it may be possible.......
I will be disappointed if PzB resigns. Three of us took a lot as Allies and he never offered me a redo when he took a chance and it panned out. You now have a chance to win but it is not a forgone conclusion. At least you do not have to worry so much about KB roaming about. Hmmm, wonder if an assault on India would be possible now? He still has a lot of LBA and he has trained his pilots well.
I have 2nd Aus Cav Div/ Darwin Defence Bde and 30th Inf Bde ready for action now plus 2 Armoured Regts in north Australia and about a brigade of Dutch troops
I could probably divert 1st and 9th Aus Divs after they refit to this operation.
I will have enough PP's in about 15 days to release 5th Aus Div.
Now thats 4 Divisons I could probably free a NZ Div in about 30 days and transfer the Canadian Div to this operation as well.
That gives me 6 CW Divs add in Aus 1 Corps HQ and ABDA HQ and it suddenly looks feasible. I would need to use AP's AK's as I couldnt spare the assault trasnports to this invasion but thats not such an issue in close quarters. I could release Wasp and Formidable plus perhaps 1 Essex and a couple of old BB's for this operation and several CVE's
If we continue I will think about this a little more
Well done on your victory andy - the allies(and all their fans among the aar watchers) have been waiting a long time for this result against his carriers. The allied players have been on the back foot for years and they are well overdue for some payback.
I am both amazed and dismayed you have offered your opponent the chance to redo the turn. PBM players invest a vast amount of time in these games and the unwritten rule is that you must be able to take bad days as well as good days. Far too often I see japanese players in aar games running riot for the first 12 months and then after one bad defeat they throw their hand up and quit. Surely the challenge for a japanese player in the later war period is to score small sucesses against the odds - just like the japanese had to do in the real war ?
The situation the day before its weird he seems to have way overconcentrated KB into to few TF's I count 4 CV's and 2 CVLs at least in one TF and 4 CV's 1 CVL and 1 CS in another I dont knwo Japanese co ordination but only 130 Zekes on CAP from 8 CV's seems light.
My CAP was set at 70% FYI and 1 CV Fighter Sqn was on night CAP as well as 2 CVL's/ CVE's and Formidables Sqn as well
lol. well if theres 2 things a carrier group can draw its subs and bombers. how did you change the base flags?
Thanks for the kind words I just really dont want the game to end had it happend at Saipan/ the Palaus or anywhere else where it matters I wouldnt have offered but this was a nonsense raid which had no purpose.
I just dont understand why he did it the bases have already fallen its crazy a moment of madness I guess also the way he configured his TF's 2 TF's only was just weird and with such an underpowered CAP.
Anyway I really dont think he will do it he hates re doing turns but I do want the game to go on.
Lets see what happens I suspect he will take a few days then we will either go on or the game will die as I cannot see another Japanese player taking it on now.
No way can it die, somebody will step up and take over if PzB quits.
I agree, no do-over. As a Jap player I full realize the good days are limited, and the bad days are just over the horizon. If you take gambles you have to be ready for the consequences.
Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks
My lack of follow up hurt me but without bullets there was no point in putting my TF's in harms way.
My CVL's managed to hit kongo but I think thats it
I am out of bullets beans and fuel so I am pulling back for Hydra 5 (I have decided on 5 before 3 or 4 because of this battle
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 02/14/44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on IND IV Corps, at 22,3
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 18
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35
Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 53
N1K1-J George x 54
D4Y Judy x 36
B6N Jill x 26
G4M2 Betty x 24
P1Y Frances x 52
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 3
Ki-21 Sally x 24
Ki-48 Lily x 32
Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
20 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
9 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
23 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
9 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 10000 feet
27 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
24 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
54 x N1K1-J George bombing at 2000 feet
20 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
19 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
23 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
9 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
8 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
3 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
12 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 10000 feet
3 x D4Y Judy bombing at 2000 feet
7 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x B6N Jill bombing at 10000 feet
3 x G4M2 Betty bombing at 10000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kweiyang , at 41,35
Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 135
P1Y Frances x 76
Aircraft Attacking:
45 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
42 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
40 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
16 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
9 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
11 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
4 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x A6M5 Zeke bombing at 2000 feet
4 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
12 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
10 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
2 x P1Y Frances bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Lautem , at 33,78
Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 12
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 25
P-40N Warhawk x 12
P-38J Lightning x 18
F-5A Lightning x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 41
Japanese ground losses:
32 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 13
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 4
Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
5 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
8 x Beaufighter Mk 21 bombing at 2000 feet
11 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
10 x P-40N Warhawk bombing at 2000 feet
15 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
2 x P-40N Warhawk bombing at 2000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Hollandia , at 49,79
Japanese aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 26
B-24J Liberator x 56
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Admiralty Islands , at 58,84
Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 14
B-25J Mitchell x 58
PB4Y Liberator x 8
B-24J Liberator x 35
Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
24 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
9 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
7 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
2 x PB4Y Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
6 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing at 10000 feet
2 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 53,75
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 29
TBM Avenger x 42
Allied aircraft losses
TBM Avenger: 17 damaged
Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA Mikuma
DD Niizuki
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 53,75
Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 53,75
Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
Aircraft Attacking:
2 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBM Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 60,86
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 6
Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 2
P-38J Lightning x 13
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed
Allied Ships
LCT LCT-327
LCT LCT-323
Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,80
Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 95
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,80
Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 21
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 129
Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 12 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 60,86
Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 2
Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 7
Spitfire VIII x 3
Kittyhawk III x 6
P-38J Lightning x 23
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,80
Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 6
Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 129
Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 6 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 2 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Dagua at 51,81
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
Ki-21 Sally x 13
Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 31
Spitfire VIII x 5
Kittyhawk III x 9
P-40N Warhawk x 4
Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 6000 feet
4 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 35,47
Japanese Ships
PC Ch 19
PC Shonan Maru #2
PC Kyo Maru #7
PC Kanju
PC Etoforu
Very quiet turn I have started to shift damaged ships back to Brisbane for repair a couple of LST's DD's all light units. 18 ships damaged in total. (West Coast and PH yards are full at mo)
Shropshire is heading for West Coast
2 USN CL's got handed back to operational control from West Coast yards.
My lack of losses in cruisers so far added to a reasonable supply of new Baltimore and Brooklyn class ships means I now have enough to cover my TF's.
With the reduction in threat from PZB's Carriers I will be detaching 2 CV's and 2 CVL's back to West Coast for refit.
The other 7 CV's/ 7 CVL's and 20+ CVE's will be enough to cover the rest of Hydra
OK Guys I have a choice of which operation to go for next I am seeking opinions
Hydra 3 against Sarmi on NW Coast of NG or Hydra 5 against Satewal
Satewal is a zero SPS atol but is lightly defended Sarmi is more substantial I will do both I am just not sure which way to go.
I had 2 Marine Divs allocated for Hydra 5 but I wont need them so I am going to use only 1st Cav Div and allocate the 2 Marine Divs to Hydra 6 instead pull the Canadian Divison out of Hydra 6 and send it to Aus for operation Sledgehammer (the assault invasion of Bombay/Karachi) that I am now considering.
Anyway I am looking for thoughts 3 (Sarmi) then 4
or 5 (Satewal) then 6 (Woleia)
If you do 5 (Satewal) then 6, what type of LBA do you have to cover it?? PzB is wounded, but a wounded animal is the most dangerous.[:-]
Going for 3 (Sarmi) is the safe way.
I hope that you strongly consider Sledgehammer. It will divert a significant part of your forces for about 2 months. But, it will be interesting to see how re-taking Karachi will effect the backlog of re-enforcements due there. Plus, I wonder what he had left to garrison India against this eventuality. [&:][&:]
Mussau Island is 85% to lvl 2 its the only base I will have in range to cover Hydra 5 on balance doing the last turn I have decided to do Sarmi at least next then play it by ear.
My resoning is the further up NG I get the more that PZB has to cover in the interior lets not forget I get a Para DIVISION soon that gives him all sorts of problems the more I keep up the pressure the more troops he has to divert from rear areas like India.
Where I am on this is I am seriously considering Sledgehammer but if I do it its a 6 Divisional Assault but make no mistake its more like a 4 month diversion and its the time that I more concerned about.
In the meantine 9th US Corps started to load onto 300 transports at Rabaul today
4th Aus Div
6th Aus Div
1st NZ Cav Bde
1 x BF
3 x SEabees
2 x Armoured Regts
Aitape is at 2 15% I am hoping to give close air support from there but I WONT wait for it. 2 Carriers and 1 CVL are higher that 10% sys and have been sent to Pearl. I will bring in P38J's to Aitape to LRCAP the invasion force as well as 7 CV/CVL's giving close air support and a 4 BB SCTF/ Bombardment TF to cover the incasion as well as strong DD LSTF's
And actually as both Bombay and Karachi are both city hexes with lvl 9 forts and at least 1 - 2 Divisons in them im not sure 6 Divs is enough.
Actually the more that I consider it the less convinced I am its possible which means land somewhere else and then attack which means a long campagn that is difficult to win.
OK all you budding allied strategists out there see if you can model an Indian Campaign that would work.
You will have ABDA HQ 4 Aus Divs/ 1 NZ Div and 1 Can Div plus a couple of Bdes and perhaps 2 Aus Armoured Regts (say 2000 AP)
A few base forces, aviation regts etc a few Fighter and Bomber Gps mostly Australian/ NZ Dutch and Chinese
All of this will be loaded on AK's and AP's as assault transport cannot be spared and will be screened by 2 - 3 CV's plus say 4 or 5 CVE's and a few old BB's and CA's this will most definitely be 2nd rate equipment.
Can anyone offer a plan with that force that could get ashore and take either karachi or Bombay.
Happy to consider any plans that have a chance of success !!!!
I am pretty sure Karachi/Bombay is impossibel but that other bases are takeable. (This rule about UK troops only appearing at karachi or Bombay is bullshit it should be any port on the Indian West Coast)
hmm. i cant remember where satawal is no matter how hard i look i cant find it. go for Hydra 3 and cancel sledgehammer as itll just be a waste of troops that can be used elsewhere. that is if u want to end the war asap. u could try an end run to kendari and use it as a forward base maybe.
OK all you budding allied strategists out there see if you can model an Indian Campaign that would work.
You will have ABDA HQ 4 Aus Divs/ 1 NZ Div and 1 Can Div plus a couple of Bdes and perhaps 2 Aus Armoured Regts (say 2000 AP)
A few base forces, aviation regts etc a few Fighter and Bomber Gps mostly Australian/ NZ Dutch and Chinese
All of this will be loaded on AK's and AP's as assault transport cannot be spared and will be screened by 2 - 3 CV's plus say 4 or 5 CVE's and a few old BB's and CA's this will most definitely be 2nd rate equipment.
Can anyone offer a plan with that force that could get ashore and take either karachi or Bombay.
Happy to consider any plans that have a chance of success !!!!
I am pretty sure Karachi/Bombay is impossibel but that other bases are takeable. (This rule about UK troops only appearing at karachi or Bombay is bullshit it should be any port on the Indian West Coast)
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