Ex Battleships

[el cid again]

I have included some ex-battleship in the listings. I noted that a sort of USS Utah was in the CHS listings - except it is a dummy ship - sort of a pure target. I included her in her modified auxiliary form. For BBO only, I executed a proposal to rearm USS Wyoming as a battleship (or as a
fire support ship - variations on the same theme). For RN I included HMS Centurion in her dummy form: she is a duplicate of KGV class battleship (lightly armed with AA guns) which spent the early part of the Pacific War in Bombay. [She carries fuel in the former gun magazines and is not a bad convoy tanker as ships can refuel from her.] Of course, a number of ex battleships and battlecruisers are present as carriers, as well, but that is not a change.

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I have included some ex-battleship in the listings. I noted that a sort of USS Utah was in the CHS listings - except it is a dummy ship - sort of a pure target. I included her in her modified auxiliary form.

Good, many have complained of her "target" status. However, for historical sake she was basically unarmed at Pearl Harbor, having her guns covered by heavy timbers, etc. and moored to a normal carrier berth to boot...

[el cid again]

However, for historical sake she was basically unarmed at Pearl Harbor, having her guns covered by heavy timbers, etc. and moored to a normal carrier berth to boot...

Her only armament is AA guns, and on the opening day of the war these are pretty ineffective. If she survives that day (she didn't historically) they might be worth something. We also could disable her guns - which would guarantee they cannot be used on the opening day.

[el cid again]

Japan also has an ex battleship in service in December 1941 (sunk 24-July-45 at Kure by TF 38). She is barely armed with light AA - but she is able to steam at 18 knots and can sail with or without gun crews for her AA (being radio controlled). If she is put in a task group, odds are fair she will be mistaken for a major target AS IS - but it would be easy to make this likely. [This is part of normal naval training and practice]. I am considering adding her along the lines of Centurion - with a mock up flight deck in CVO and mock up gun turrets in BBO (ie as a dummy carrier in CVO and a dummy battleship in BBO). This at least balances the existence of Centurion on the Allied side - and the possibility that Utah could be mistaken for a major target - something very likely given the classification I have used - and something that may have happened at Pearl Harbor. Comments?

[DuckofTindalos]

Are you thinking of the Settsu?

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Are you thinking of the Settsu?

I'm thinking of Hostess chocolate cupcakes and pizza.

[Ron Saueracker]

If you start getting into this kind of detail there will be no end to it. "Hey, where is the crane ship Kearsarge?" I like the inclusion of Utah for historical sake, given she was attacked and sunk at PH.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

ORIGINAL: m10bob
I'm thinking of [...] chocolate cupcakes and pizza.

You pervert!

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

ORIGINAL: m10bob
I'm thinking of [...] chocolate cupcakes and pizza.

You pervert!

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

However, for historical sake she was basically unarmed at Pearl Harbor, having her guns covered by heavy timbers, etc. and moored to a normal carrier berth to boot...

Her only armament is AA guns, and on the opening day of the war these are pretty ineffective. If she survives that day (she didn't historically) they might be worth something. We also could disable her guns - which would guarantee they cannot be used on the opening day.

I ended up having no armament but all other attributes intact. I then made a 4112 upgrade for her with armament. If she does not get damaged she can now "upgrade" immediately. A ship with disabled weapons can take a while to get them all back, as disabled is the same as destroyed for naval vessels I think. I made her a BB for her original confiuration and then a PG for her upgrades. As a BB she will take less sys damage when she does the first upgrade.

[el cid again]

If you start getting into this kind of detail there will be no end to it. "Hey, where is the crane ship Kearsarge?" I like the inclusion of Utah for historical sake, given she was attacked and sunk at PH.

I agree. Joe likes to say "we can do anything - but we cannot do everything." In this case, I like Centurion because she really sailed - and Utah because she was really engaged. Seems only fair to give IJN ONE similar ship - for play balance and to have similar fun. But this thread is to see what OTHERS think - I am asking for opinions

And yes - it IS Settsu I am thinking of.

[VladViscious]

Are you looking at making them big AA support vessels? What kind and number of AA weapons are you putting on them if they upgrade? I know that there was a proposal in the 80's to take the Iowa Class BB's and convert them into Air Defense ships. Interesting idea, and I think it would make life very difficult early in the war for Betties depending on how many guns she is carrying. Also I woudl imagine with that much bunkerage she woudl take a long time to run out of AA ammo.

TANSTAAFL!

[el cid again]

Are you looking at making them big AA support vessels? What kind and number of AA weapons are you putting on them if they upgrade?

I see you read Heinlein!

The Utah and another US battleship (Wyoming) were armed as AA training ships. Utah had 5 inch 38s on one side and 5 inch 25s on the other side! And also a strange set of 40mm mountings - apparently two quads, a twin and a single (to train gun crews). They could have mounted many more guns. Wyoming had 3 inch mounts and 20 mm mounts as well. But in RHSBBO I bring Wyoming back as a battleship/fire support ship - while in RHSCVO I don't bring her in - for she did her work of the Virginia Capes as a training ship.

TANSTAFFL indeed.

[VladViscious]

Yeah I am a Heinlien fan, I have read over 40 of his books, most more than once. So in neither Scenario you bring Utah back if she isn't sunk? I was wonderign what you woudl do with her if she survives PH attack.

TANSTAAFL!

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Can I ask: Where gone Wyoming turrets? Maybe you must grab some CD facility to rearm her?

[m10bob]

Another Japanese "target ship" which was never used as a target, but as an escort, was the Ohama,(only ship of its' class to be completed,Joined the Japanese Navy 1/45..
Displacement:2560 tons
Dimensions:367x38x37
Speed: 32 kts.
Arms:2x4.7 in,32x25mm AA,36 DC's
Launched in Yokahama

There were also a couple of old pre-Dreadnought armoured cruisers used for training, one of which (the Kasuga) was never dis-armed.
Displacement:7080 tons
Dimensions:357x62x25
Speed: 20 kts.
Armour:4.5-6" main belt, 1.5 deck,5.5 turret,6in battery,4.5 bulkhead,4.5 bridge
Arms: 1x10in,2x8in,4x6in,4x3in,1x3in AA

[el cid again]

Yeah I am a Heinlien fan, I have read over 40 of his books, most more than once. So in neither Scenario you bring Utah back if she isn't sunk? I was wonderign what you woudl do with her if she survives PH attack.

I don't think Utah will be sunk most of the time. If she is not, she will "repair" back to her gunnery training form. This is a useful ship as a sort of "convoy tanker" - she can feed minor escorts fuel for long distance movements - or even blimps for that matter! And she can provide some AA cover. The Wyoming does not appear in RHSCVO, but the proposal to restore her to service is adopted for RHSBBO.

I actually corresponded with RAH - which is impossible because it was his policy NOT to correspond! He would write to say "you are the only one who gives me lots of data and does not ask for anything in return but I just had to say how useful it is" - stuff like that. Once he also had his wife send a note about a game I sent him. I used to read all his stuff.

[el cid again]

Can I ask: Where gone Wyoming turrets? Maybe you must grab some CD facility to rearm her?

I do not know, but I suppose they were in storage. There were two different proposals to remount them. She had been disarmed under terms of the London Naval Treaty, but that didn't require more than mere dismounting of turrets and removal of boilers. Presumably this was some sort of contingency planning. It is not that strange: when USS New Jersey was activated in 1968 (after the first edition of Battleships and Battlecruisers had said there NEVER would be another active battleship),
a set of extra guns was sent to Subic. In the event they were not used - when she shot out her tubes she was taken out of service again. Of course, it may be they planned to give her NEW turrets - as in those on the Alaska class. I wonder if I have this somewhere?

Edit: She retained 6 of her original 12 main guns until 1944. The amphibious fire support ship proposal was probably just to send her out with these, and a modern AAA suite. The other proposal, to return her to full BB status, must have contemplated remounting the missing 3 turrets - so it is likely they were in storage for that contingency.

[el cid again]

There were also a couple of old pre-Dreadnought armoured cruisers used for training, one of which (the Kasuga) was never dis-armed.

Actually these are in CHS. They were no longer training ships - they were full CAs in IJN during WWII! They were used in the China squadron as fire support ships! Their best use would be for scrap steel - if only we had a provision for that.

[m10bob]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

There were also a couple of old pre-Dreadnought armoured cruisers used for training, one of which (the Kasuga) was never dis-armed.

Actually these are in CHS. They were no longer training ships - they were full CAs in IJN during WWII! They were used in the China squadron as fire support ships! Their best use would be for scrap steel - if only we had a provision for that.

Game called "Spaceward Ho!" would allow you to junk old ships and salvage the steel.........