RHS OoB Errata

[el cid again]

I have added depth charges to all Soviet Destroyers. Seems Conways fails to list depth charges. There are two kinds - one not in the game - too small. But the way the game works I can substitute half as many larger ones. The larger Soviet DC is exactly the same as one of our game devices. The number of charges is small. These ships won't be very effective.

My only destroyer disagreement is re the Ognevoy class - I show two ships built in the Far East launching in 1944 - Vnushitelnyi and Vnimatelnyi. However, there is some doubt about the latter - a ? appears by the launch date. The first was "completed by the end of hositilities" and - given our longer game scenario - I believe the other one might have been.

Subs are going to be a problem. The names for the big classes I got - but what slots to give them? And the small classes - I am not sure what they are? Western materials and Russian materials seem so different one must guess.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Most notably difference between subclasses are their range. Also number of small AA guns and machineguns (but this could change even for units in one class).

Look here at excellent Czech site for their data: http://warships.web4u.cz/tridy.php?lang ... SOV&typ=SS
You will notice that there were differences even bettween same subclass but operating within different fleets!
So your 6000nm of range for Shch class seems actually like a round up of ranges of subclasses (3000-9600nm).

[Monter_Trismegistos]

You are right about naming scheme for Shch type. Next vessels continued that pattern. Shch-103 was lost before war, and Shch-138 during (but before declaring war on Japan, raised not repaired scrapped). But there were transfers - ships transferred eventually changed their names, but not immediately - already mentioned Shch-423 renamed Shch-139 two years after tranfer! That change is the only one which interest us (in sense of Far East).
M-class submarines didnt had any pattern in naming. Exact names I already gave you.

L-class:
proj. II - 3 vessels ordered for Baltic (L-1/Leninets, L-2/Stalinets, L-3/Frunzovets) and 3 for Black Sea (L-4/Garibaldiyets, L-5/Tchartist - not sure if transcription is correct, L-6/Karbonariy). For Far East: 0
proj. XI - 6 vessels (L-7 - L-12) for Far East
proj. XIII - 7 vessels (L-13 - L19) for Far East
proj. XIII-bis - 2 for Arctic (L-20, L-22), 1 for Baltic (L-21) and 3 for Black Sea (L-23, L-24, L-25 possibly not completed before end of war)
L-3 cannot be at Murmansk, she under command of ltcdr P.D.Grytsenko during summer 1942 on Baltic Sea sunk AP with 1500 troops and layed mines which caused sinking of 2 merchants.

Back to Soviet submarine force capability: did you know that K-21 heavy damaged Tirpitz?

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I have added depth charges to all Soviet Destroyers. Seems Conways fails to list depth charges. There are two kinds - one not in the game - too small. But the way the game works I can substitute half as many larger ones. The larger Soviet DC is exactly the same as one of our game devices. The number of charges is small. These ships won't be very effective.

My only destroyer disagreement is re the Ognevoy class - I show two ships built in the Far East launching in 1944 - Vnushitelnyi and Vnimatelnyi. However, there is some doubt about the latter - a ? appears by the launch date. The first was "completed by the end of hositilities" and - given our longer game scenario - I believe the other one might have been.

Subs are going to be a problem. The names for the big classes I got - but what slots to give them? And the small classes - I am not sure what they are? Western materials and Russian materials seem so different one must guess.

I think the DC totals need to be redone since the model now deals with individual DCs. Also, seeing this is the case, perhaps the number of rails be increased by the total number of charges dropped per rail. To make clear, at the moment eack K/Y gun fires 1 DC and each rail fires 1 DC. The rails dropped multiple DCs per pattern so to work with the model, the number of rails should be multiplied by the number of DCs dropped each pattern. X3, X4, x5 perhaps? And divede the rail ammo between the total. eg. if a DD has 2xDC rail and 4 DCs are dropped per rack per patter, then the rail total should be 8.

[el cid again]

Back to Soviet submarine force capability: did you know that K-21 heavy damaged Tirpitz?

No - where is this described

I did find the second five year plan continued essentially the same L class - but
I cannot confirm your armament - all sources give the same - the one I used.

[el cid again]

I think the DC totals need to be redone since the model now deals with individual DCs. Also, seeing this is the case, perhaps the number of rails be increased by the total number of charges dropped per rail. To make clear, at the moment eack K/Y gun fires 1 DC and each rail fires 1 DC. The rails dropped multiple DCs per pattern so to work with the model, the number of rails should be multiplied by the number of DCs dropped each pattern. X3, X4, x5 perhaps? And divede the rail ammo between the total. eg. if a DD has 2xDC rail and 4 DCs are dropped per rack per patter, then the rail total should be 8.

I think the model only drops one charge per launcher because that is how the data is entered. IF you put different numbers in the "mount" field they will fire simultaneously. Will test. It may be we need to increase BOTH number of launchers AND number per mount to get the salvo right.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Tirpitz was hit by K-21 after her attempt to attack PQ-17 convoy, while he was returning home. It was July the 5th, 1942.

[el cid again]

Tirpitz was hit by K-21 after her attempt to attack PQ-17 convoy, while he was returning home. It was July the 5th, 1942.

Sounds vaguely familiar at that.

And also sounds RUSSIAN! That is, referring to a ship as "he." In English ships are "she"!!

[Monter_Trismegistos]

I know, but sometimes I forget. Of course in Polish ship (both warship and civilian) is always "he".

[Monter_Trismegistos]

I found at http://www.world-war.co.uk/ quite interesting info about differences between Kirov and Maksim Gorkiy classes.

K - Kirov ; MG - Maksim Gorkiy
You have provided data for Kirov class, but Maksim Gorkiys were quite different. At some points Far East ships were even more different:
On Gorkiys max belt armour was thickened to 70mm. Endurance was different for every ship, Maksim Gorkiy and Molotov had more, but Far East ships had actually fewer: 3100nm. Secondary armament also differed on Far East ships (but not on Maksim Gorkiy itself and Molotov): 8x85mm instead of 6x100mm. Also number of small AA guns increased from 6 to 9 (later modified), and Kaganovich and Kalinin actually held 10x37mm + 6xMGs.

[el cid again]

I intend the review the Soviet ships shortly - I need to free up some slots - and I had other fish to fry. But I will use the Maxim Gorky data for the ships in question. I hope to add all the submarines - if only I knew for sure how many that was! There is a remarkable difference in sources. But we won't just have four for each class.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

I think that you should test first, if coastal submarines deserves slots they using. 2 torpedo tubes without reloads is rather small and I think it would prevent any succes in game. Also their micro-endurance... I would kill from database all M-class subs, but that you already know it

[el cid again]

I think that you should test first, if coastal submarines deserves slots they using. 2 torpedo tubes without reloads is rather small and I think it would prevent any succes in game. Also their micro-endurance... I would kill from database all M-class subs, but that you already know it

No I did not know it. My book on Soviet ships says they should have been good submarines. In WITP I think, mostly, "a sub is a sub is a sub" - and many cheap ones may be more useful than a few expensive ones. But I will test. I have one test running with the Soviets active - and in that one - ONLY the Soviet Air Force AND submarines are taking offensive action. The planes are eating up Japanese bases - but ground forces just watch. The subs mostly sink - but sometimes get things.

[el cid again]

I have reviewed Soviet ships and freed up some slots for them at the expense of rocket landing craft which do not function. There are now 13 L class, 6 S class and 31 SHCH class submarines. I also have 40 M class subs as coast defense devices, not actual vessels.

I was able to add all the 10 1943 deliveries of minesweepers and 9 sub chasers. To that add 9 more SC in 1945 (although in fact it should be 14 more than that). These are American built vessels with fine sonar and radar - and should count as proper MS and SC - not be misinterpreted by the code. I am trying to figure out what to do about the G-5 PT boats?
There is no way to add 120 or more of them!

I modified the armor and range of the Cruisers, but there is no 85mm gun! Thinking about using an 88mm.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Yep, my choice was 88mm AA gun.

[el cid again]

I cannot give the Soviets subs. Worse than not using them, the AI USES them EVEN IF the Soviets are NOT active! Any ideas? Surface ships stay in port. Probably manual controlled subs stay in port (if auto sub ops is off). But if AI is boss neutral Russian subs are AGGRESSIVE - and haunt the Tsushima straits approaches in numbers.