Very tempted

[Skeleton]

I have been researching this game for about a month and I own several Matrix games so my question to you is this; I am a big fan of Napoleonic games, love the period and I am quite intrigued by this game, but without a demo I am torn as to if I should purchase it or wait for the several Napoleonic games on the near and distant horizon. I have read there is no printed manual (a definate con) but in terms of gameplay and the interface, what is the complexity? Severe, moderate? How is battle resolved, ie, how abstract is the battle period? I really want to hear raving endorsements, I WANT to get this game, but I have been burned one too many times and without a demo, I am merely tempted. Just need a nudge of encouragement in the right direction. Thank you in advance.

[barbarossa2]

Dear Mr. Leper, [;)]

I am playing a PBEM game of the 1809 campaign with a friend of mine now. In my humble opinion, it is a GREAT operational game. The supply system is rewarding because it is not always simple to plan operations. You can't simply go here or there. You really need to plan in advance where your center of operations or axis of advance will be by strategially placing supply depots in key cities along your planned advance route (or route of retreat). And when it DOES all come together, it is a wonderful feeling.

There's nothing like playing this double blind and facing the same operational dilemas as your historical counter parts because they could not know where the enemy was operating for sure (yes there are intelligence reports, but they aren't always accurate).

Tactical battle resolution: hmmmmm... If you would be getting this game for tactical battle resolution, it would be a mistake. Although I am happy with the results and the way it works for an operational game, battles are simply NOT something which are resolved in a manner which makes the game MORE interesting (like Total War Rome or Total War medieval). Basically, you select one of four "plans" and the computer adds all modifiers (like Imperial Guard presence, or Napoleon) and begins to calculate away, then presents losses. Bottom line, if you are more into tactics than operations, then DON'T buy this. BUT!!!! If you want a GOOD operational game which gives you a better feel for Napoleonic planning than most any board game out there I have ever played, then this is really a MUST.

I consider the interface to be simple. When you get the game, just read the rules once, play against the computer with computer control of supplies turned "off" and play so you can not see the enemy, but all of your own forces. By being able to see all of your own forces, you will be able to understand how the supply system works for games in which total fog of war is in effect, and won't even be able to see your own supply trains. After your first experimental game, read all of the rules again. And you're ready for play against a human.

Sadly, it did not come with a scenario editor. Perhaps its fatal flaw. Would have been perfect.

[Skeleton]

Barbarossa2, I think you may have sold me. Thanks for the info and the trouble you went through explaining the game in detail. Much appreciated, thanks again.

[Skeleton]

Barbarossa2, how is the AI? I have been very tempted by the HPS Napoleonic titles, but from what I can gather, the AI is dismal. Any thoughts or comments would be most welcome. And in regards to Total War like battle resolution, that is not what I am looking for. I would much rather have a strong AI than the eye candy, I was just curious as to how battle is handled with this game. Again thanks for any and all info.

[anarchyintheuk]

I don't know that the ai would be considered good or bad. Fow and the delay involved w/ orders combined w/ your own stupidity or carelessness makes the ai quite effective. Once you get a good handle on how to do recon, it seems less effective.

I'd still recommend the game.

[barbarossa2]

I played only a couple of games against the ai.

That being said, AI can't learn from its mistakes. Which will always make the AI adequate in the learning phase of just about every game...and an emberassment once you have figured out the best way to tweak the system. I don't think any game can provide you with a good AI experience which is as rewarding as playing against a living, breathing, sneaky, human being.

So. If forced, I would rate the AI "average for all game efforts I have played". And then go on to say, that it is more than adequate to teach you how to play for your only real challenge... PBEM. AND the PBEM seems to be simple enough, and also cheat proof. So I highly recommend it over AI gaming once you are high enough on the learning curve.

[Skeleton]

Thanks alot yet again barbarossa2 and to you as well anarchyintheuk, the info was very much appreciated. Do either of you have any opinion on the HPS AI? Just curious.

[anarchyintheuk]

Don't know what HPS is, so I don't have an opinion. [:)]

[barbarossa2]

Sorry, but I don't know what HPS is either.

Have you decided on getting COTD? I am having a blast in the game I am playing PBEM now. If you like operational Napoleonics, I would say it is a 4.5/5.

Haven't had a problem with it crashing in a long time either. So that's good too.

[Skeleton]

HPS Simulations, They have a Napoleonic Camapaign series. ie, Wagram, Russia, Waterloo, and I believe Echmuhl. I have decided to get COTD, but I first must get my credit from NWS. As soon as I do, I shall check back in and let you know what I think and of course bombard you with newbie questions. Thanks to both of you for responding and if you have heard of HPS (John Tiller) let me know what you think. The site is www.hpssims.com

[DEB]

John Tiller was part of the team that worked on the Battleground Series for Talonsoft/Empire ( now taken over by Matrix). See elsewhere on the forums site.

I have BGW ( Waterloo ), PTW ( Prelude to Waterloo - Ligny & Quartes Bra ) and NIR ( Napoleon in Russia ) from the battleground Series & The French & Indian War from HPS. The Battleground series all use the same rules and gameplay concept and the FIW uses the same systems with some enhancements. The main change for FIW is that units can move & fire in the same phase and defensive fire is AI based. This creates a greater "realtime" effect. You can however set the game to run on the old phases basis like the BG series if you wish. John Tiller has done much of the work at HPS and the games above are good examples. If the other games at HPS are as good as these I would recommend them.

[Skeleton]

Thanks DEB, I have gotten alot of good feedback about the HPS titles, and thus went ahead and purchased the Waterloo title, I am just awaiting my delivery. My main concern is the A.I., as I play almost exclusively solo. But, I took a leap of faith, and when the redone Matrix version of the Napoleonic Battleground is released, with it's improved A.I., I shall go ahead and get that as well. How would you rate the A.I. with the FIW titles you mentioned in the small, medium, and large maps? Thanks for any feedback.

[DEB]

To date I have only played a few small mapped scenarios on FIW having got side-tracked by creating 2 Sc. from scratch with the Sc. editor & playing four campaigns @ Shogun - Total War). I have also only played at the "normal" level ( level 2 of 4? ) for FIW & the BG series.
The FIW AI is reasonable, but does not play as well as it could do at a tactical level. ( Perhaps I should move up to level 3. ) This is due to the user friendly Sc. editor where you can even set the AI orders for a game or edit the exsisting orders; it is maybe too simple a system. I think the AI plays better in the old BG series, despite the larger maps & many more units. ( My BG system does not have an editor and the AI programing therefore may be more complex. )

I think it's just a matter of taste anyway. I always learn a game on the "normal" level and generally play on that level thereafter. If it proves too easy I will move to a harder level. So far I havn't needed to go back to any easy level to win, and I haven't needed to go up to a harder level to get a reasonable game either.

[Skeleton]

Thanks DEB, I appreciate your comments, and now look forward to Matrix re-issueing the BG series even more. Cheers

[barbarossa2]

Wait Wait Wait!

Are you saying there is an operational game covering the Waterloo campaign??? Still available? That works? With a scenario editor?!?!!!???

[DEB]

The scenario editor comes with FIW ( French & Indian Wars ) by HPS.

As for Waterloo Yes & Yes & ?? - See www.hpssims.com website.
( This could be better than my BG Waterloo & BG Prelude to Waterloo combo & has lots more Sc.'s. )

[1NWCG]

I am currently looking for someone to play a PBEM game against if anyone is interest please post.

[Skeleton]

Barbarossa2 I would answer yes to all of your questions as well, and after having spent a couple of days with this title would indeed give it two thumbs up. Another title, on the horizon that appears to be a possible masterpiece would be HisWar Les Grognards over at www.battlefront.com Check out the hps title and if you do indeed take the plunge, let us know what you think