Lunacy or Shrewdness?

[Monter_Trismegistos]

All of Mogami house rules can be exchanged by one simple: Japanese player cannot win, and if he actually did - it was cheating.

What house rules did you prepare for Allied player to prevent him from conquering Tokyo in December 1943?

[mogami]

"Mogami - Very well-known for his technical understanding of game mechanics and for his somewhat Pyrrhic victory over the Soviets in one AAR. There were howls of 'unhistorical!!!' there as well, of course. Especially good at misdirection and bringing about hesitation on the part of the Allied player when he plays as Japan. "

Hi, I never defeated the Soviets. I only attacked them in 1 of the 3 Lunacy games and that game was not finished. The object of the 3 Lunacy games was to test the impact on war if Japan was able to knock out Soviets and use manpower in CBI but Oleg and Tom H. prevented attack from ever taking place.
I've taken PH in test games as well as landed on USA west Coast.
I don't think I've ever won an actual game of WITP from either side. The games where i was doing well ended when opponents vanished and in the other games I've been clobbered. I still have 3 active games as Japan (in Mid 43x2 and early 43 x1)
Since I do not try for AV I have not came close to it and since I stink as Allies I've lost 3 games to AV. (I lose interest in game if Japanese player goes for world conquest)

My next experiment will be a "Free deployment" game where a 3rd party modifies the starting setups. There will be limits but the purpose will be to test the actual skill of Japanese player in planning operations where he is unable to peek at Allied delployments prior to entering his turn 1 orders. The Allied player could end up being worse off but the Japanese player will not be able to plan on a base being undefended. The Allied player will be required to defend (he cannot deploy units out of harms way on rear bases)

The Japanese player can adjust his force locations prior to loading transports but still has to follow the "no closer then 4 hexes" at end of turn 1 except for Allied bases less then 4 hexes from Japanese base.
So hexes that are empty in PI currently might be defended and the Dutch might leave some of the currently occupied bases empty to increase defense of other bases. Noumea might have a Bde deployed at start. (and so sending a SNLF via teleport will fail) There might be torpedo bombers on Midway etc. (The Japanese will have to plan operations without the abilty to calculate exactly the forces required for success)

I would like to play this scenario from both sides.


I would add Oleg M to your list of players who can play both sides expertly.

[mogami]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

All of Mogami house rules can be exchanged by one simple: Japanese player cannot win.

Hi, I'd change that to "Japanese players cannot win by magic"

[Monter_Trismegistos]

What house rules did you prepare for Allied player to prevent him from conquering Tokyo in December 1943?

Magic is restricted for only one side?

[mogami]

Hi, Let them try to capture tokyo in 1943. If it's not defended it's not magic if they succeed and if it is defended the attempt will fail.

(pozostawaæ uciszaæ)

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Simply game is well balanced. Stronger early Japan is compensated by stronger late Allies. Limiting Japan, without limiting US means overbalancing.

And BTW in Polish when we cannot write special letter, we use nearest western sign. So ć is written as c. What have you wrote? Two verbs? Both in infinitive forms? We will check your Polish knowledge

[Nemo121]

Odox,

Surprise exists in the mind of the commander. To be honest while I'll take surprise if I get it I am far, far more reliant on a reckless operational tempo with a view to getting inside my opponent's OODA loop. Once the Boyd cycle battle is one one can use that to guide one's opponent into making ever more inappropriate responses/force allocations. This, as I'm sure you are aware conforms very closely with Soviet doctrine to which, as I alluded previously, I am adherent. Recon, maskirovka and then hit hard and fast, ripping a hole in the enemy defences before punching your operational manoeuvre group into an operationally significant area which dislocates the enemy's 2nd line of defence. This is the manner in which I am beginning to view an operation into Northern Australia...


Walkerd,
Sorry but I don't see that it is like being unable to intercept aerial mining missions. One cannot intercept aerial mining missions even though it was intended that one could because of an error in the game code. Exploiting a game feature to its fullest ( in what some may feel is an ahistorical manner instead of a dyshistorical manner) is not comparable to an actual feature being broken due to an error in code. Apart from that I think we're pretty much in agreement. Thanks.


My personal view about this is that perhaps the issue isn't so much where I landed as the fact that while surprise should have been preserved at PH it should have been lost elsewhere. I would agree this is quite reasonable... Any chance for having variable surprise levels added to WiTP II?

[Nomad]

Let me inject something here. Not too long after WitP came out, I started a PBEM game with a nameless person. He started the game, as Japan, much the same as you. I decided that one good exploit deserved another. I launched 5 simultanous sub borne attacks on the Japanese mainland. There are bases with either no units or only baseforces with no attack factors. But they all have engine, aircraft, resource, oil, HI, and/or manpower. I am not completly sure about the exact numbers, but I think I took out about 350+ aircraft engine factories, 80 aircraft factories, a bunch of manpower( they get divided by 10 each time they change hands). He quit the game before 12/25/41, crying about 'unrealistic' tactics [:D][:(]. ( note that the qote of unrealistic tactics is in no way a dig at you and/or your opponent. Just that it seems a bit strange to have some one landing troops at Batavia on 12/7/41 complain about unrealistic tactics.) You might want to check your homeland defense. [X(]

Odox, I didn't get a mention? [:D]

[Nemo121]

Hehe, funny you should mention that. I've got CDs or combat units in every city in Japan ... I hadn't so much thought of sub-borne invasions but figured it was strategically stupid not to put a few infantry in every city.

[Nomad]

BTW, I much preferr the map and synoposis type of AAR. I rarely wade though many that have the complete combat results posted.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Nomad

Let me inject something here. Not too long after WitP came out, I started a PBEM game with a nameless person. He started the game, as Japan, much the same as you. I decided that one good exploit deserved another. I launched 5 simultanous sub borne attacks on the Japanese mainland. There are bases with either no units or only baseforces with no attack factors. But they all have engine, aircraft, resource, oil, HI, and/or manpower. I am not completly sure about the exact numbers, but I think I took out about 350+ aircraft engine factories, 80 aircraft factories, a bunch of manpower( they get divided by 10 each time they change hands). He quit the game before 12/25/41, crying about 'unrealistic' tactics [:D][:(]. ( note that the qote of unrealistic tactics is in no way a dig at you and/or your opponent. Just that it seems a bit strange to have some one landing troops at Batavia on 12/7/41 complain about unrealistic tactics.) You might want to check your homeland defense. [X(]

Odox, I didn't get a mention? [:D]

We want names!!! LOL I too find this funny as well and am in complete agreement that if someone is going to pull crap, I'm not above it either. Eye for an eye and all that. Keeps most people rael. Unfortunately, this usually results in the instigator crying in his milk and quitting like a wee toddler.[:)]

[mogami]

Hi, There must be some type of Black Hole that swallows a person if he is doing badly in a PBEM game of WITP. Many persons where abouts are currently unknown and they were last heard from by me in email right before I sent back a "good turn"
I live in fear of falling into one of these Black Holes myself because I lose so many PBEM games.

[Odox]

Gentlemen:

Hmm. I seem to be beginning this post in an unenviable position, of having to make apologies all around.

No doubt 2ndACR, I had you confused with someone else. I offer this as evidence of the poor addled brain I've been saddled with all my life. It's been my cross to bear.

By all means Nomad your comments have been ubiquitous and insightful throughout WiTP.

And Mogami, I think you are being entirely too modest. Perhaps you've never taken the time to preuse your former opponents' AARs. They have been very revealing.

But I agree with you on many points. There is a paucity of completed games in the forum, and for the very reasons you and Ron Saueracker have specified. Yes, a 'free deployment' option for the Allies would certainly separate the 'men from the boys' as it were. As I mentioned earlier, we are just now really beginning to define superior gameplay on the part of the Japanese, and upping the ante is a perfect way to refine the process. It would at least perhaps separate those who merely wish to have their moment of conquest in a public forum from those who wish to develop their skills. They would have an inkling of what they were getting into from the beginning.

But alas, it's back to WiTP Elementary for me I'm afraid. So many AARs to study and lessons to be learned! And I suppose I should cease hijacking this thread and let Nemo121 get back to his game.

Respectfully,

Odox

[Monter_Trismegistos]

Your post Nomad shows only that Allies need more houserules than Japan.

[Nemo121]

I'll post my week 1 round-up later but in looking ahead I am considering an Australian operation ever more closely...

Here's my current thinking:

1. Around New Year's I can land at Townsville and its environs with 56th bde, Kure 1st and 2nd SNLFs and 2 other NLFs. I have support of 5 CAs, 3 CLs and 22 DDs with up to 100 Bettys as cover.


2. I can FT a few NLFs into the ports west of Darwin and then by the 2nd week in January I can hit Darwin with the 65th Bde and 21st Infantry Divisions.


All of this is possible as my opponent seems to be withdrawing as many of his troops as possible from Singapore and Java into the northern bit of the DEI just east of Singapore... I'm inclined to let them wither on the vine a little if this is what happens and use the forces thus freed up to end the struggle in the Phillipines and establish myself in Australia before turning to clear them up.

So, I can put about 700 AV into the Darwin area in 3 weeks and about 300 AV into the Townsville area in 2 weeks... So, is this enough to dig in and defend near Townsville for a while? I figure that every unit he sends north to dislodge me from Townsville is a unit which is delayed from helping Darwin and once I start getting hurt near Townsville I can withdraw towards Darwin myself...

Any advice?

[Mike Solli]

Keep in mind one thing when invading Australia - Supply Lines!

Your supply line is exclusively by sea while the Allied player's is by land. In one of my PBEMs, I invaded Darwin and eventually took it. It was a last minute thing. It happened in early May 42. I did it for one reason. His B-17Es were already starting to hit Kendari and Ambonia. The B-17s were stationed in Darwin. I sent a CA bombardment force to harass him and was unsuccessful. They totally missed the airfield. [:(] I sent my BB force to the area from Japan. They did the trick and wiped out a significant number of B-17s. [:D] I invaded with one division and discovered i needed more force. I eventually funneled in a total of 2 divisions, 2 eng regiments, a tank regiment and 2 art units. I pushed out 2 Aust. divisions and some supporting units. In late May-early June 42 I started to withdraw incrementally. I did not want to lose any of those forces. They'll be needed later for defense. My last division was withdrawn the turn before he counterattacked. (I pulled a Kiska on him![:D]) Granted he's going to move his 4E bombers back there and start bombing me again, but I did postpone the inevitable for a month or so for practically no loss. Oh yeah, I did leave him a present too. There are over 1000 mines in his port. I have Nells/Bettys in the area, so that port is out of commission for awhile.[:D]

If I had it to do over again I'd make only one change. I would have included a special base force (120 air support). That way I could have sent some recce there as well as some fighters and bombers to keep him honest.

[Rob Brennan UK]

Hi Nemo . welcome to the community[:D]

For someone to 'master' WITP in 3 weeks i have to take my hat off to you [&o]. Seems like this thread is a becoming rather busy with a lot of big names commenting. Take what people say under advisement is my advice. Your both playing the game you want to play and thats what counts. but do expect some 'negative' feedback none the less. [;)]

Anyway back to the game :-

WOW ! .. I'm glad im not fighting you. Your oponent seems to be using up the entire allied surface forces in the DEI real quick (and yes the boise is a bugger to kill). Could you post a summary of total ship losses so far please it;ll be interesting to see the carnage.

And australia early .. why not . your absolutely right about not hitting darwin direct and both derby and wyndam make good airfields. Be aware however that the normally stativ australia command troops will come up after you and they are quite substantial. However if he does strip the south, raid it to kill the factories and res etc. perth is worth a good raid too if left undefended.

And have a good fun game [:)]

[Nemo121]

Ah so until I invade Australia his Australian units cannot move? Wow, I hadn't known that... So, in effect, until I land troops ( or he saves enough PPs to "buy them out") his Australian units are stuck in the bases in which they began?


If he DOES move everything northward to take me on then I'll be happy. He may have the interior while I have to go around the perimeter but to misquote an old master, "March, counter-march, disaster".

[Nomad]

I am not sure where you got that idea Nemo. He can march his Australian Command units anywhere in Australia. He can not put them on a ship and move them.

[Nikademus]

His Oz units can move but only overland on the continent. Australia Command is one of the 'restrictive HQ' types. They cannot be air transported or loaded onto transports to be sent elsewhere until PP's are paid to change their HQ.

Invading Oz is an interesting gambit but one I doubt will bring any success. As Mike S. mentioned, the #1 motivation usually involves Darwin in order to eliminate B-17's from threatening the SRA. There are substantial Oz LCU forces there as long as they don't get spread out too much though the NE coast is initially vulnerable. I don't think any PBEM player has ever successfully "conquored" Oz thus far.