Anyone working on user scenarios?

[*Lava*]

Hi!

Just wondering if anyone was inspired by the upcoming release to start working on new user scenarios?

Personally, although I've never published a scenario, I am working on new european war scenario tentatively named "The Fourth Republic."

Ray (alias Lava)

[bluermonkey]

I've been thinking about starting work on a Gulf War scenario for quite some time now, though I never seem to find the time.

[Curtis Lemay]

My next design (about 2/3rds finished) is being reserved for TOAW3. After that I'll need to do some updating on my existing stuff.

[*Lava*]

Indeed,

I'm working on my scenario for the Matrix Edition as well.

Here's the opening deployment when you start play:


Ray (alias Lava)

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Lava

Personally, although I've never published a scenario, I am working on new european war scenario tentatively named "The Fourth Republic."

A Hypothetical scenario with a revisionist France trying to reverse her defeat in the First World War? I made a scenario along those lines ages ago- which was very, very bad. It's an interesting subject, though. Good luck.

[*Lava*]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
A Hypothetical scenario with a revisionist France trying to reverse her defeat in the First World War?

Kinda...

I'm testing it now and need to put some finesse stuff in there, possibly something verrry different.

I see the game in 3 phases. I've pushed through the first phase and it was definately fun and challenging, at least for me. Now to move on and make sure each subsequent phase challenges as well.

What I like about the scenario is that I can remove historical preconceptions on how the war should be fought and thus put the player into a situation in which his true operational abilities are challenged.

Ray (alias Lava)

[Central Blue]

I'm in the finishing stages of a Pentomic Fulda game. There's a lot of material available now at .mil sites and I've rassled with online translation of the Bundesarchive for info on the German forces. Soviet TOE is taken from FM 30-102 Handbook on Aggressor Military Forces. It's as suggestive as anything else.

I could use a good Soviet OOB for june-august 1961. Something like the US Army Station Lists would be ideal... Because I would like to create other snapshots for 1962, 1979, and 1955 or 1956. I'ld like to do the same for NORTHAG if I ever could find enough good info.

I'm using the map from some scenarios created by Doug Bevard. I don't know how good it is. I would also have no clue about making a better one, but obviously terrain is importat at the 5 kilometer scale. The current scenario is 5 km. I would like to go lower so I could do this at the company level so armchair generals could create their own battle groups.

I'm trying to figure out a good point system for an 18 + day offensive involving the 8th Guards Combined Arms Army and 1st Guards Tank Army. Is it unreasonable to expect to have the big points at Frankfurt and bridges over the Rhine? Also at Wiesbaden, USAFE HQ, and Hannau, a major supply depot?

ANother thing I don't know about the scenario is the status of French forces. I think the French Second Corps was committed to that region. I know they were on a TOE similar to the Germans, called Division 59.

If there are no French forces I think the scenario will be a bit of a gloomy learning experience for NATO unless I skew the point system or Davy Crocketts show up in the new version.The Pentomic battle groups suck. I've tried to mimic the cutting of support by the US Army during the era. I think it might be working. At the end of the scenario little of the US materiel in depot had been distributed to my desparate forces, while the Germans had burned through their stocks.

I'm looking forward to the new version just to see how the ADA works. The Germans have organic AA, but the Army was forced to put it's faith in Nike and the first Hawks. The Soviet air corps is modeled on the info in FM 30-102. NATO Air is based on the 50th TFW at Hahn and Jbg 35 at Buechel. F-100's and F-84's against Mig's also sucks. So any info on what sort of French air might have been committed to this region would be helpful.

BTW ... I hope they have improved the air plane data in the new game.

Anyone know what the weather is like in that part of Germany in early June or early August?

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Central Blue

I could use a good Soviet OOB for june-august 1961.

You should talk to Sstevens. He's working on a Central-Europe-wide scenario called Berlin Crisis '61. He also tends to have very good sources. His scenario's not in competition with yours due to the scale difference so you can probably benefit from talking to him.

I'm using the map from some scenarios created by Doug Bevard. I don't know how good it is.

Well, Bevard's TOAW scenarios on the whole are pretty bad, so I'd really recommend making your own map. It is a chore but if you use the map scaler from ODD (http://www.tdg.nu/download/odd.htm) the job is made a lot easier.

I'm trying to figure out a good point system for an 18 + day offensive involving the 8th Guards Combined Arms Army and 1st Guards Tank Army. Is it unreasonable to expect to have the big points at Frankfurt and bridges over the Rhine? Also at Wiesbaden, USAFE HQ, and Hannau, a major supply depot?

What I suggest you do is put in all the data and then see how well the Soviets do in playtesting. Then put most VPs in the areas that are contested late in the scenario.

Anyone know what the weather is like in that part of Germany in early June or early August?

Fairly clear and dry I should think. Give or take the odd cloud of radioactive dust.

Sounds like you have some good ideas. Hope some of the above is helpful.

[Central Blue]

the map scaler looks nifty. Now all I need is good .bmp map info to work from.

I found the Berlin scenario at strategist net and I'm looking at it now.

Stevens might be interested in the FMs available online at the Carlisle Barracks if he's a TOE freak -- his ACR's look a tad strange. ALso the station lists from USAEUR history office are enlightening. Two of the armor Battalions of the 3rd AD were organized as cavalry with medium tanks in June 1961. Why? Maybe to work in small numbers of the new M-60? Lineage info at 3rd AD web sites indicate they went back to armor in 1963. There are also some good articles out there at Leavenworth, and the Army Center of Military History.

But it's a gigantic scenario that shows a lot of hard work.

I can't imagine it would be much fun playing with nukes at 5km.

[sstevens06]

ORIGINAL: Central Blue

the map scaler looks nifty. Now all I need is good .bmp map info to work from.

I found the Berlin scenario at strategist net and I'm looking at it now.

Stevens might be interested in the FMs available online at the Carlisle Barracks if he's a TOE freak -- his ACR's look a tad strange. ALso the station lists from USAEUR history office are enlightening. Two of the armor Battalions of the 3rd AD were organized as cavalry with medium tanks in June 1961. Why? Maybe to work in small numbers of the new M-60? Lineage info at 3rd AD web sites indicate they went back to armor in 1963. There are also some good articles out there at Leavenworth, and the Army Center of Military History.

But it's a gigantic scenario that shows a lot of hard work.

I can't imagine it would be much fun playing with nukes at 5km.

Hi Central Blue! Good to see someone else interested in this period of the Cold War & thank you for the kind words about my scenario.

My intention is to port the Berlin Crisis 1961 scenario to TOAW3, primarily to take advantage of the 'nuclear attack bug' fix. (Though I may hold off until a viable equipment database editor - 'BioEd' or something from Matrix - becomes available.)

I would be very interested in any US/NATO OOB/TO&E sources you know of. I'll admit I spent more time researching the Soviet OOB & TO&E (since it was so much more challenging) and probably used less authoritative sources for the NATO side.

Ah, nuclear weapons...I'm afraid a nuclear exchange would have been an almost 100% certainty during this time period. Both Soviet and US doctrine virtually guaranteed it.

[sstevens06]

ORIGINAL: Central Blue

I'm in the finishing stages of a Pentomic Fulda game. There's a lot of material available now at .mil sites and I've rassled with online translation of the Bundesarchive for info on the German forces. Soviet TOE is taken from FM 30-102 Handbook on Aggressor Military Forces. It's as suggestive as anything else.

Glantz, David M., Soviet Military Operational Art: In Pursuit of Deep Battle. Frank Cass, London, 1991. This book has TO&Es for Soviet forces during the Cold War.

I could use a good Soviet OOB for june-august 1961. Something like the US Army Station Lists would be ideal... Because I would like to create other snapshots for 1962, 1979, and 1955 or 1956.

One source for this is Lenskiy & Tsybin. Someone has posted it online (in Russian):

http://www8.brinkster.com/vad777/glavn.htm

Told you it would be challenging...[;)]

I'ld like to do the same for NORTHAG if I ever could find enough good info.

I'm using the map from some scenarios created by Doug Bevard. I don't know how good it is. I would also have no clue about making a better one, but obviously terrain is importat at the 5 kilometer scale. The current scenario is 5 km. I would like to go lower so I could do this at the company level so armchair generals could create their own battle groups.

I'm trying to figure out a good point system for an 18 + day offensive involving the 8th Guards Combined Arms Army and 1st Guards Tank Army. Is it unreasonable to expect to have the big points at Frankfurt and bridges over the Rhine? Also at Wiesbaden, USAFE HQ, and Hannau, a major supply depot?

ANother thing I don't know about the scenario is the status of French forces. I think the French Second Corps was committed to that region. I know they were on a TOE similar to the Germans, called Division 59.

If there are no French forces I think the scenario will be a bit of a gloomy learning experience for NATO unless I skew the point system or Davy Crocketts show up in the new version.The Pentomic battle groups suck. I've tried to mimic the cutting of support by the US Army during the era. I think it might be working. At the end of the scenario little of the US materiel in depot had been distributed to my desparate forces, while the Germans had burned through their stocks.

The only chance NATO had of stopping the Soviets at that time was nuclear weapons, both sides knew it.

I'm looking forward to the new version just to see how the ADA works. The Germans have organic AA, but the Army was forced to put it's faith in Nike and the first Hawks. The Soviet air corps is modeled on the info in FM 30-102. NATO Air is based on the 50th TFW at Hahn and Jbg 35 at Buechel. F-100's and F-84's against Mig's also sucks. So any info on what sort of French air might have been committed to this region would be helpful.

BTW ... I hope they have improved the air plane data in the new game.

Anyone know what the weather is like in that part of Germany in early June or early August?

You may find answers to some of your questions above in my scenario...

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: sstevens06

The only chance NATO had of stopping the Soviets at that time was nuclear weapons, both sides knew it.

Yeah. I recall hearing that a young NATO came up with a set of force goals based on the minimum necessary to stop the Soviets conventionally- the number I remember was 90 divisions- the governments at the time considered this so ludicrously high that they didn't even bother trying to meet the goal, and made up the difference with nuclear weapons- the great equaliser.

[Central Blue]

Hey Stevens,

ready for some links?

This is to station lists from 1955 to 1976:

http://www.history.hqusareur.army.mil/stationlists.htm

This is to the Field Manuals, and some other documents:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil:808 ... snt=series

Next are a series of articles:

Maneuver and firepower: the evolution of divisions and separate brigades / by John B. Wilson.
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/Lineag ... m#contents

US ARMY BORDER OPERATIONS IN GERMANY 1945-1983 / by WILLIAM E. STACY
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/documents/Bo ... ontent.htm

Toward Combined Arms Warfare: A Survey of 20th-Century Tactics, Doctrine, and Organization
by Captain Jonathan M. House, U.S. Army
http://cgsc.leavenworth.army.mil/carl/r ... /House.asp

ARMY LINEAGE SERIES INFANTRY Part I: Regular Army
by John K. Mahon and Romana Danysh
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/Lineag ... fantry.htm

Bonus Glantz [:)]

http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources ... lantz4.asp

I was looking at the Parrallel History site. Interesting stuff on the disposition of soviet forces in the 8th Guards according to the Intel Estimates. I had all of the infantry as mechanized rather than motorised.

Thanks for the info.

[Rob322]

Hey guys,

In line with these inquiries about NATO forces, I had a couple of questions myself for a scenario I was working on (late '80s)

A) I know several units were tasked for POMCUS and that they had full sets of equipment deployed in Germany. Did they also have full sets of equipment in the US? I've heard conflicting statements on this. If they did have full sets what was the plan for the equipment when the soliders went off to Germany (ie, were they going to be replacements or would NG/USAR units appropriate the gear?)

B) I had one source that indicated the US had stockpiled around 1000 MBT's in Central Europe as spares (and that the UK had around 200), does anyone have anything that might confirm these totals? If these numbers are true, what types? I tend to think they'd be all M-60s but I could see a mixture of M-1s as well to keep the front line units at top strength with the latest equipment.

C) My understanding was that the 9th Infantry Division was undergoing a conversion to a Heavy Division when the end of the Cold War saw it deactivated instead. Does anyone know where this division would be assigned? I was under the impression it was under I corps but I also was under the impression that a 6th POMCUS division site was under consideration and this unit would've been a logical choice. Any info would be appreciated.

[JSS]

ORIGINAL: Rob322

A) I know several units were tasked for POMCUS and that they had full sets of equipment deployed in Germany. Did they also have full sets of equipment in the US? I've heard conflicting statements on this. If they did have full sets what was the plan for the equipment when the soliders went off to Germany (ie, were they going to be replacements or would NG/USAR units appropriate the gear?)

More like the NG units would go and get their equipment back from the units that had borrowed it.

B) I had one source that indicated the US had stockpiled around 1000 MBT's in Central Europe as spares (and that the UK had around 200), does anyone have anything that might confirm these totals? If these numbers are true, what types? I tend to think they'd be all M-60s but I could see a mixture of M-1s as well to keep the front line units at top strength with the latest equipment.

Think the term spares is wrong. 1000 tanks corresponds to what, about 4 or 5 divisions? May well be the same equipment you've mentioned above.

C) My understanding was that the 9th Infantry Division was undergoing a conversion to a Heavy Division when the end of the Cold War saw it deactivated instead. Does anyone know where this division would be assigned? I was under the impression it was under I corps but I also was under the impression that a 6th POMCUS division site was under consideration and this unit would've been a logical choice. Any info would be appreciated.

9th Division was never headed to heavy status to the best of my understanding... it did go thru a couple of test phases (motorized & special equipment). There's a great article on CMH that discusses divisional structure changes over time.

EDIT: Central Blue has posted the link above... Maneuver & Firepower by Wilson[/quote]

[Central Blue]

I think we all have to guess about what was sitting around in depots. Even if the tanks are around, are there crews to man them? We also have to guess about the efficiency of recovering armor and repairing it. Armor recovery vehicles have never played a role in this game.

The Old Reliables of the 9th division used to be a test-bed division at some point after wwii. I don't know who is doing that now; whomever has the Strykers and calls Ft. Lewis home I suppose.

[sstevens06]

ORIGINAL: Central Blue

Hey Stevens,

ready for some links?
...

Thanks a lot!

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: Central Blue
The Old Reliables of the 9th division used to be a test-bed division at some point after wwii. I don't know who is doing that now; whomever has the Strykers and calls Ft. Lewis home I suppose.

My understanding was that a brigade of the 9th was reflagged as a brigade of the 2nd and that the other brigade was reflagged as a brigade of the 25th, the old roundout to the 9th, the 81st mech remains a heavy unit.

According to what I was reading in late 88, the tests were essentially done and they had decided to make it into a mech division (as again it's roundout bde was already in that configuration) but plans for that were canceled and the division was deactivated.

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: JSS

B) I had one source that indicated the US had stockpiled around 1000 MBT's in Central Europe as spares (and that the UK had around 200), does anyone have anything that might confirm these totals? If these numbers are true, what types? I tend to think they'd be all M-60s but I could see a mixture of M-1s as well to keep the front line units at top strength with the latest equipment.

Think the term spares is wrong. 1000 tanks corresponds to what, about 4 or 5 divisions? May well be the same equipment you've mentioned above.

No, it meant spares. The source broke down the # of tanks assigned to active units, the #of tanks in POMCUS stores, and the # of tanks that were in reserve to serve as replacements. Now again, it never broke down what types of tanks and neither was I sure if it was planned or if the stockpile existed.

[Central Blue]

I guess it wouldn't surprise me if there were a fare number of older tanks left in Europe -- like M-60s and M-48's. Expensive to ship them home. Available for sale to allies still using them. And maybe even planned for use in a worst case scenario.

BTW... I corps was/is slated to reinforce Japan or South Korea. Or so says this website:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... -corps.htm