Starforce!

[Hentzau]

Many demos out there also contain starforce so you don't just acquire it from a bought game. The "Soldiers Heroes of WW2" demo contained starforce for example. Starforce has effected my ability to burn "good" CDRs in the past. I won't buy more games with starforce on them, if Ubi puts starforce on the new WWI flight sim I'll be uber PO'd.

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: Hentzau
...if Ubi puts starforce on the new WWI flight sim I'll be uber PO'd.

No reason to think they won't...They've released it on all their major titles.

I have to stand up and say I have a couple "minor" issues with Starforce. It was on my system by way of Silent Hunter III and X3 - Reunion. I suddenly realised I had a cd burning software running and that was the reason I could not run X3 - and another time I discovered that I couldn't now run GTR from my dvd-rw drive.

The details are vague - but these problems occurred as far as I can remember. However, I've never seen any apparent damage to my system...so as long as the game is worth it, I may not let it bother me if it uses it or not....but I do find it strange that companies are using software protection that:
1) Costs them potential sales
2) Is so vehemently opposed to by the gaming community
3) Is intrusive, apparently damaging and definitely fickle
4) And this is the cruncher - it doesn't work as copy protection!!

[Jevhaddah]

The only game I can think of where I could have got this is Silent Hunter III which I uninstalled

Silent Hunter 3 has the earlier version of Starforce which as yoo found out is not removed after an un-install [:@]

So far I have had no problems with SF on my main gaming PC, my main gripe is that there is/was no warning of its presence on the game box.

There are are also a lot of stories going around that blame SF for every mishap, while some of them may be true bear in mind a lot of it is just coincidence.

Personally I do not like SF, but I have some games like X3 that need it to run, I will however think twice before I buy a game that is 'protected' by it.

I use CD emulation software on my laptop for my grahics libraries etc, SF does not like this and refuses to let games run, this to me is a piece of nonsense. I do not know how they can get away with producing and distributing a piece of software that by design stops legitimately bought games run, becuase you have another legitimately bought piece of software running on yer PC.

The above holds true for De-bugging software too and as I am a retired Software Engineer and still code for fun, I can do without the hassle.

Sooooo, what to do....

Cheers

Jev

[Riun T]

What u've mentioned about the lack of notification of these types of EXTRAS that one recieves with what they think from the box, is an individual item urks me the most. AS u said why do they get to interupt any other function on one's machine that u as the owner and opperator of have deemed lagitimate and payed for? IF STARFORCE WORKS SO WELL OR IS SO REQUIRED BY THE PROGRAM<?? SHOULDN"T IT AT LEAST BE MENTIONED ON THE fuggen BOX?? I've gone to the length of unfolding it flat to read, AND THERES NOTHING !![:@] RT

[Jevhaddah]

Another point that I should mention is that it is the Publisher IIRC that decides what protection goes onto a CD and not the developer, so complaints etc should be aimed at them.

In the end though most people are not going to be aware that SF is there and the big publishers are not going to give hoot about what we think. The SF people themselves are pretty arogant and seem to think that everyone who complains is a Pirate, so much for innocent untill proven guilty.

The fact remains though that something is being installed on my PC that I know nothing about, prior to purchse, it can interupt or totally prohibit me from carrying out other tasks on my own PC and as I have said before, I will NOT be buying any more games with SF protection, but compared to ordinary peeps, I am just lost in the crowd.


Cheers
Jev

[vertical]

I plan on buying SH3 soon and am curious, if I ran the SF removal utility every time after I exited the game would SF only be on my system during the time I run the game? I will not buy SH3 if SF has to be active on my system in between.

[Jevhaddah]

I may be wrong, but if yoo use the removal tool and then check in the Device manager and find no mention of Starforce then it may be gone, but it will re-install itself the next time yoo play SH3 and will ask yoo to reboot yer PC.

Cheers
Jev

[RBWhite]

My understanding of Starforce ProActive is that it is dormant when the game is dormant.[>:]

But, SF ProActive knows instantly when you boot up an SF game if you have changed you systems configuration and deactivates the game. So is it dormant?[&:]

Thus requiring a reactivation from the publisher or developer/publisher if they are the same entity.

Starforce Professional is never dormant, so I'm lead to believe.[:-]

You have to find out which version Ubi is using.

[ravinhood]

You can remove Starforce everytime after playing the game for Gangland and it will be gone, for X3:Reunion though it leaves shadow drivers still even if you use the old tool to remove Starforce. It apprantently gives most trouble to those who use copy programs like Nero or any non-regular non-full copy type backup program. I lost two cdroms on two seperate systems due to Starforce I'm pretty sure. When everything is working fine and great until you install a game with it on it, then all of a sudden the cdroms stop reading or even being recognized in your system, then you remove Starforce and everything starts working fine again, it can only mean one thing Starforce was causing the issues. Unfortunately the X3:Reunion Starforce managed to destroy my Cdroms completely, now neither one is recognized by either of my computers. You don't call it coincedence when on two seperate occassions with two seperate systems after installing Starforce these things happen.

[Jevhaddah]

Like all things to do with IT and computing change happens rapidly and in quick succession.

As far a Starforce is concerened, probably the best thing to do is avoid it altogether.
As I used to tell my students 'If in doubt, leave it out' before doing something yoo may regret.

It is a very contentous issue and both the arrogance of the Starforce people AND the people that blame it for everything that goes wrong are not really helping to solve the issues.

The truth is probably somewhere in between.

I will not be buying any games that have SF as protection and I have removed my X3 from my gaming PC until Egosoft or the Publisher release a NO CD patch as they did with X2.

It's the publishers that have to be moaned at though, but it will probably be futile.

I spend most of my free time play one of the many excellent games I have purchased from Matrix Games anyway as I have all but given up on the 'Main Stream' commercial, bug ridden rubbish that is churned out these days.

Cheers

Jev

[RBWhite]

I agree, since removing all but on Starforce game, which I know to be Starforce ProActive and the other were SF Professional, my machine has had fewer quirks so to speak.

I've been upgrading my machne over the last two months, well actually damn near replaced everything. I have two brand new LiteOn drives to install, my current drives are 5 and 7 years old respectivly. (My HP 100i dvd writer uses the Veritas Record Now Program). But, until I can figure out if SF programs damage the drives opticals they stay in the boxes. The fact you have lost two drives to SF and I have heard the same at other forums, and there are many talking about Starforce, well that last SF game leaves my machine today and my new drives get installed.

Jevhaddah listed the three drivers Starforce uses. I think the three drivers indicate Starforce Professional.

If the Starforce Protection Synchronzation driver (version 2.x) is excluded it is Starforce ProActive, but I still don't trust that program. Also, based on the coments made by the folks in Moscow, that just adds to my mistrust of the program.

[ravinhood]

News has it that UBI will no longer be using Starforce copy protection in their future products. More information is over at the wargamer.com site. WE HAVE WON!!!!!!!!! Now they just need to sue CDV and get them to get rid of Starfarce and we'll all be happy campers again.

[JudgeDredd]

If that's true, that's fantastic news for genuine gamers.

[Terminus]

Damn, typing with my fingers crossed is difficult...

[Goblin]

Hehehehehehehe![8D] Link:


http://www.gamespot.com/news/6147655.html







Goblin

[Jevhaddah]

I wonder how many more Publishers will follow Ubi's example, I really do hope that this is the end of SF.

I am also hoping (but not holding my breath) that patches will be issued for the games that I have already bought that will allow them to run without SF.

Found this info on the web, can't really speak for its accuracy, but it makes me want to err on the side of caution.

Starforce is a
TrojanKit:
Definition:
1. Security Applications installed without end user consent.
2.Software that grants Ring 0 access to Ring 3 (user level) applications.
3. Interferes with other software such as virtual drives, SCSI/SATA etc.
4. Puts its own virtual protection drivers on the system.
5. Interferes with other applications Windows registry settings.
6. Can be exploited with replacement malicious versions to grant Full Ring 0 access

Starforce once installed is constantly checking your system and sending info to drives interferring with streams back and forth.

SF is so over zealous about its sector checking that if it loses these it will refuse to function. On top of this, XP reads this as a disk I/O error. Which in turn causes it to step down the IDE speed to compensate. Eventually it will step down to the older 16 bit mode which disables DMA access altogether. No DMA means.

1. No Digital access to play audio CD’s
2. Unable to play DVD videos from DVD
3. Most current CD/DVD Games/Application will not run.
4. CD/DVD writing becomes almost impossible (Up to 2 hours for a full DVD on 16x DVD writer) and it will make many coasters even on burn proof drives.

The issues concerning DMA can be cured by uninstalling SF and then uninstalling the CD/DVD drivers as well as the Primary and Secondary IDE controllers. Forcing XP to reload those drivers.

Hardware failure:
A lot of new CD/DVD hardware is not PIO mode compatible. Thus any period of time being used in this old 16bit mode can be interpreted by some drives as attempts to Overburn/Read an excessively over burned disk. I.E in over burning you force the laser to go right to the edge of the disk. This results in the laser in many cases hitting the side casing of its guide and in turn stripping the threads off the worm gear. Basically it trashes the hardware.

Some drives also interpret the search for specific sectors indicated by SF as an over burn read/write command.

Security:
SF opens up Ring 0 (super user level) access to Ring 3 (User level applications).

Cheers

Jev

[ravinhood]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6147655.html

Well it's official now. UBI dumps Starforce. lol I think we should all send an email waving bye bye to Starforce usage in the future, hopefully this will lead to a chain reaction and others will follow suit. Hurray for boycotts, hurray for class action suits, hurray for the "consumers" everywhere. As I've always said, eventually us consumers will win out.

[Hertston]

I don't think their attempt to shaft Stardock (who had declined their 'services') by posting a link to an illegal torrent for Galciv 2 went down too well among publishers, either. It seems Aspyr Media (US publishers of Spellforce 2) dumped them for that reason alone.

This really might be the beginning of the end, I think, unless Starforce goes completely back to the drawing board. There's a rumour about that they were actively negotiating a contract with EA, but I just can't see that happening now.

[RBWhite]

I didn't mention this before, when I had Straforce games ( both versions) installed on my machine, I would periodically find my McAfee Security Center disabled. (the taskbar icon turns black, I & McAfee are the only one who can do that) Since removing all SF games, drives & blocking Starforce with my firewall it longer happens.

I had McAfee Tech support scan my system after one of the mysterious Secutity center disablements, their responce was that I should check for other types of protection programs active on my system. ( their was ony one, SF)

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: Jevhaddah

I wonder how many more Publishers will follow Ubi's example, I really do hope that this is the end of SF.

I am also hoping (but not holding my breath) that patches will be issued for the games that I have already bought that will allow them to run without SF.

Found this info on the web, can't really speak for its accuracy, but it makes me want to err on the side of caution.

Starforce is a
TrojanKit:
Definition:
1. Security Applications installed without end user consent.
2.Software that grants Ring 0 access to Ring 3 (user level) applications.
3. Interferes with other software such as virtual drives, SCSI/SATA etc.
4. Puts its own virtual protection drivers on the system.
5. Interferes with other applications Windows registry settings.
6. Can be exploited with replacement malicious versions to grant Full Ring 0 access

Starforce once installed is constantly checking your system and sending info to drives interferring with streams back and forth.

SF is so over zealous about its sector checking that if it loses these it will refuse to function. On top of this, XP reads this as a disk I/O error. Which in turn causes it to step down the IDE speed to compensate. Eventually it will step down to the older 16 bit mode which disables DMA access altogether. No DMA means.

1. No Digital access to play audio CD’s
2. Unable to play DVD videos from DVD
3. Most current CD/DVD Games/Application will not run.
4. CD/DVD writing becomes almost impossible (Up to 2 hours for a full DVD on 16x DVD writer) and it will make many coasters even on burn proof drives.

The issues concerning DMA can be cured by uninstalling SF and then uninstalling the CD/DVD drivers as well as the Primary and Secondary IDE controllers. Forcing XP to reload those drivers.

Hardware failure:
A lot of new CD/DVD hardware is not PIO mode compatible. Thus any period of time being used in this old 16bit mode can be interpreted by some drives as attempts to Overburn/Read an excessively over burned disk. I.E in over burning you force the laser to go right to the edge of the disk. This results in the laser in many cases hitting the side casing of its guide and in turn stripping the threads off the worm gear. Basically it trashes the hardware.

Some drives also interpret the search for specific sectors indicated by SF as an over burn read/write command.

Security:
SF opens up Ring 0 (super user level) access to Ring 3 (User level applications).

Cheers

Jev

Interesting. I was experiencing the drastic slowdown of my DVD burning on my 16X writer to the point where it took two hours to burn a disk, I was also experiencing numerous coasters and bad burns even on premium media. As a result, I untook my disastrous reinstall of Windows XP (commented on elsewhere) which froze up on the identifying devices stage and trashed my disk, requiring a complete reformat and reinstallation of many, many programs.

This sounds suspiciously like it was a Starforce protection problem initially. Anyone have any idea if the Windows Update screwed up because of the StarForce installation?

Grrrrr.... I'm glad to see that Ubisoft is dropping them. I hope CDV follows suit.