The all seeing eye of Glen

[DFalcon]

One of my opponents (my brother) and I have been discussing the IJN Glen equipped subs. These subs using naval search in the game give the Japanese player a strategic intelligence advantage over the Allied player. This seems completely at odds with the historical strategic intelligence situation.

In that light we have been discussing house rules to limit the air search capabilities of these subs. I thought the input of the community would be helpful in hammering something out. So far we have two ideas and welcome comments and suggestions on these or other house rule options.

1. Sub based Glens can only conduct naval search when stationed in coastal and atoll hexes. Recon flights can be made from any hex.

2.Only 2 Glens based on subs can conduct naval searches in one turn and only in clear weather zones.

These rules are ether or, both would not be used.

Thanks in advance for your ideas and opinions.

[FeurerKrieg]

I like the second one better, but it would be a bear to manage each turn. The top one is probably better from a playability standpoint since you don't have to check each glen each turn, just check when you have a sub leaving an island/atoll.

[Terminus]

In my mod, I've gone with rule#3: REMOVE THE GLEN COMPLETELY FROM THE GAME.

(might be a bit drastic for some, though...)[:D]

The Glen is definitely overrepresented in the stock game, as is. Those rules sound like viable options, although you'd probably go with the first one, as Feurer said...

[DFalcon]

#2 gives the Glen at least some deep ocean search potential. I tend to micro manage my subs playing ether side but it is combersome.

I think you are probably on to something there Terminus.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

In my mod, I've gone with rule#3: REMOVE THE GLEN COMPLETELY FROM THE GAME.

(might be a bit drastic for some, though...)[:D]

The Glen is definitely overrepresented in the stock game, as is. Those rules sound like viable options, although you'd probably go with the first one, as Feurer said...

Rule #3 works for me...

[spence]

It'd take recoding off course but the Glenn should be limited to Reconnaisance missions only.

[Black Mamba 1942]

The real Imperial High Command wished the Glen's worked the way they do in this game.[:D]

Did Glen's in reality EVER accomplish anything of real value?
I read somehere that they were only good for a few flights.
The airframe couldn't handle the punishment of open seas operations.

[DFalcon]

ORIGINAL: spence

It'd take recoding off course but the Glenn should be limited to Reconnaisance missions only.

Restricting them to recon only by a house rule seems reasonable and manageable.

[ChezDaJez]

I don't see removing it from the game or restricting the missions it can perform as viable options but I would agree that its use is overstated.

As any meaningful change requires a recoding, why not recode it to where the Glenn can only be flown in fair weather conditions? This would certainly limit its usefulness and be more historical as well.

If that doesn't fit the bill, then increase the chance of ops losses substantially for being flown in anything other than fair conditions.


Chez

[niceguy2005]

Not being as big a WWII buff as some on this forum I was shocked to learn that JPN even had that capability, at least in any real sense. I did know enough that in reality subs didn't have a significant naval search capability.

I agree the #2 would be hard to manage, but maybe this is not a bad thing. To me, that means that the player will choose not to use it more than use it and accidently break the rules.

I also like option #3.

[The Duke]

A Glen was the only Axis plane to bomb the continental United States during the war.....how about THAT for making an impact?

[8D]

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: The Duke

A Glen was the only Axis plane to bomb the continental United States during the war.....how about THAT for making an impact?

[8D]

The other day, I had a bug of unknown species but definitely possessed of greenish-white guts make a much bigger impact on my windshield.

[bradfordkay]

Past, that's probably a June Bug... nasty big green splats on your windshield...

[Belce]

Another option and also a coding one, would be that these sub based Glen's could not be repaired on subs and would have to be repiared at an airbase the sub was docked at. This would still require micro-manage of these assets, since their default would be to not fly. The rate of service damage of these planes from subs could also be tweaked to that they fly they are likely to be damaged.

[Charles2222]

While in theory it gives them a better spread than they would otherwise have, you have to remember also that the subs have seemingly no recon ability, which is a bunch of baloney. All subs would at least stick up the ol' periscope up every once in a while and spot something (whether they attacked it or not).

[Brady]

Seams to me most glens get shot down fairly easly, rendering the subs that cary them and only one "sol" and far from home. Also a lot of the time the single plane misses convoys entirely that are withen it's operational patrole zone. Any sightings it makes are realy lucky ones.

Thier are several examples of their use to recon objectives priour to atacks made by Japan, many of which were not even noticed by the Allies.

And as stated by many before and shurley many to come, if you use a tool in the game in maner inconsistant with how it was used during the war your going to get results that are inconsistant with history. Thier are so many things that are so whacked in this game that this pales to insignafagance, being far closer to reality than many other aspects in terms of use and capabalitys.

[bradfordkay]

"And as stated by many before and shurley many to come, if you use a tool in the game in maner inconsistant with how it was used during the war your going to get results that are inconsistant with history." (sic)

Could this be why you see so many Glens getting shot down? [;)]

Sorry, Brady, I couldn't resist the dig... My latest game has seen three Glens shot down and three lost to operational causes, in eight months of gametime. Considering that most spend their time scouting the NE Australian coast (Cooktown through Brisbane), this seems to be fairly light losses to me...

[Charles2222]

Yes Brady, I haven't played this game too many hours altogether, but I can say that I have NEVER spotted a single ship at sea with one of those sub-based Glens. Part of it has to do with their lack of experience and the very bad early weather, but the other part has to do with the ease of their getting attacked. My Glen's ship spotting abilities is confined to the pilot knowing there's ships about by the intensity of the depth charging.

[Charles2222]

I've never sent Glen subs to those areas. I'm trying to send 2-3 east fo PH and the rest to be between Kwajalein, Wake, and the Solomons, hoping to see a massive fleet, which I never do.

[bradfordkay]

The AI uses them to spot TFs coming in and out of port. It really likes to crowd all its subs in the aforementioned area, so that's where I usually see Glen sightings. And, yes, I have had a few TFs spotted at sea by them, normally the ones taking WITP's Great Barrier Reef Inside Passage.

(note to AB or any aussie in the know... is this a true to life nautical feature or does the coastal shipping between eastern Australian ports run on the outside of the reef?)