partial list of scenarios

[Okimaw]

I saw on a thread here something about a partial list of scenarios for TOAW 3 on here, where can I find it?

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: Okimaw

I saw on a thread here something about a partial list of scenarios for TOAW 3 on here, where can I find it?

If you're refering to what I think you're refering, it's a list of the scenarios supplied with COW.

To my knowledge, there won't be any scenarios which are new to the game when it's released. But there are many, many COW scenarios which it should be possible to convert.

[ralphtricky]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: Okimaw

I saw on a thread here something about a partial list of scenarios for TOAW 3 on here, where can I find it?

If you're refering to what I think you're refering, it's a list of the scenarios supplied with COW.

To my knowledge, there won't be any scenarios which are new to the game when it's released. But there are many, many COW scenarios which it should be possible to convert.

We're including all the scenarios that shipped with COW. We've also got a group looking at the best scenarios on the net, and cleaning them up a little if necessary, getting permission to publish them and organizing them into folders.

Oh, yes, we'll also take any COW scenario

[Okimaw]

Just a post script to my original entry, In checking out the Matrix ad on this site it says 130 scenarios, didn't COW come with 80? Or am I mistaken?

[ralphtricky]

ORIGINAL: Okimaw

Just a post script to my original entry, In checking out the Matrix ad on this site it says 130 scenarios, didn't COW come with 80? Or am I mistaken?

I'm checking on that. I think that the 130 figure is scenarios that we pulled from the internet.

That would put the total to about 200 scenarios. The COW ones are of varying quality.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick
That would put the total to about 200 scenarios. The COW ones are of varying quality.

That's being polite. The scenarios which came with the original game tend to be among the worst, because the designers were doing them for the money rather than because they wanted to make a good scenario. Since it's impractical to pay anything like a reasonable hourly rate for the work needed for a good scenario, this led to some very half-arsed efforts. There are one or two exceptions, of course.

[SurrenderMonkey]

As one of the scenario designers for the original game, I can assure you we didn't get paid anything. It was simply a labor of love.

[DanNeely]

I think it would be fairer to say the canned ones suffered from short development times and lack of indepth knowledge about how the engine worked.

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: SurrenderMonkey

As one of the scenario designers for the original game, I can assure you we didn't get paid anything. It was simply a labor of love.

OK, I just recall talking about this with someone who was supposedly comissioned to make a scenario for Century of Warfare.

[pbhawkin1]

Hi all,
SO does that mean that there is a general feeling that ACOW scenarios are not as good (whatever that means) compared to TOAW II scenarios??

[rhinobones]

The discussion above is actually saying that the scenarios which came with the original TOAW-COW disk are not up to the standards of some of those who comprise the TOAW authoring community. Has nothing to do with TOAW II or the quality of any scenarios provided with the original TOAW II disk.

Should also note that Golden Delicious is one of a number of players/authors who’s criteria for “good scenario” requires an accurate Order of Battle and a scenario design that concludes in the historical outcome. Although I do have respect for this view point, I argue that the “fun” factor is the most important aspect of COW-TOAW. After all, it is a game, right? OOBs and history have little meaning to me as compared to the challenge of playing the game.

In this regard, some of the standard TOAW-COW disk scenarios that are considered junk might actually be quite entertaining using my alternative definition. In the end though, it is up to you to decide.

Golden Delicious does make an important point concerning the scenarios developed after the release of COW-TOAW. Again, some are good and some are questionable, but there are quite a few that are well tested and designed for player enjoyment. This is a development tool that the authors of the original COW-TOAW disk did not have the luxury of enjoying.

Suggest that you download and try as many scenarios as possible. Nothing better than your own opinion on a scenario. If you want to try a few 10 to 12 turn scenarios as PBM send me a Private Message.

Regards, RhinoBones

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

Should also note that Golden Delicious is one of a number of players/authors who’s criteria for “good scenario” requires an accurate Order of Battle and a scenario design that concludes in the historical outcome.

Or at least, so you keep telling me.

If the game is in a historical setting, then the starting conditions really must be historical. Otherwise what's the point in calling it historical? However I also play hypothetical and even fictional scenarios. Note that for these, the starting conditions should also be reasonable. See your War of the Ring- would it be much fun to play if the Hobbits kept on thrashing Saruman on their own?

The historical outcome should be possible- but if that's the only outcome you can have, there's probably something wrong with the scenario. Some designers work like that, though.

After all, it is a game, right?

That and more. See the introduction to the manual.

OOBs and history have little meaning to me as compared to the challenge of playing the game.

Well, a historical scenario puts the game into context. Your actions have meaning which you can understand in terms of the real world.

Even looking at your own fictional scenarios, you endeavour to put them into some context. "Revisionist War" by its very title has been given a background and a reason for fighting. "War of the Ring" is set in a fictional world so rich that it's almost as compelling as the real one. You can't possibly deny that a familiar setting- which in the vast majority of cases means a historical setting- makes a scenario more interesting to play. A fictional setting is a trade-off for the purpose of removing the benefit of hindsight.

In this regard, some of the standard TOAW-COW disk scenarios that are considered junk might actually be quite entertaining using my alternative definition.

Well, even if we're to overlook that most of the scenarios are also pretty unbalanced since there was no time to playtest them properly, there's also the fact that because these scenarios present themselves as being historical, they are in fact deeply misleading. I keep coming back to "France 40"- this scenario actively serves to reinforce the commonly held myths about the campaign in question. Players come away from scenarios like this and think they understand the battle. It would be fine if the scenario had included a disclaimer to the effect that it was actually a work of fiction and is just intended for fun. It doesn't.

Suggest that you download and try as many scenarios as possible.

Quite. There's a huge range of works out there to suit any interest. There are also various ratings systems and "What's your favourite scenario" threads dotted around the internet.

[Tim McBride]

I worked on a couple of the orignal scenarios and agree that they just are not that good; if the time to playtest them was available like we have now, and we had the current level of knowlegde of the system I think the in game scenarios would have been much better in the end result. I keep wanting to take the time and go back and fix the ones I did.

[a white rabbit]

ORIGINAL: pbhawkins

Hi all,
SO does that mean that there is a general feeling that ACOW scenarios are not as good (whatever that means) compared to TOAW II scenarios??

..give you a quick game of Curt"s Vietnam, then you tell me

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: a white rabbit

..give you a quick game of Curt"s Vietnam,

Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

[wyrmmy]

If I remember we had 4 or 5 weeks to do Kashmir, Plus in the life of my dealings with TS, I had numerous revisions to all scenarios I was involved with that were requested for inclusion in patches and not included. They also had 1 patch that reverted to version 1.0 of St Lo from about 1.6. Norm was not the only one having problems with that outfit. Oh, hey Tim. ;P

Bryan Corkill

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: wyrmm
Norm was not the only one having problems with that outfit.

You're not kidding. They threw us out of their own discussion boards not long after COW was released. Of course at that point we'd all already bought their game two or more times so they didn't need us any more.

[ralphtricky]

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: wyrmm
Norm was not the only one having problems with that outfit.

You're not kidding. They threw us out of their own discussion boards not long after COW was released. Of course at that point we'd all already bought their game two or more times so they didn't need us any more.

Crazy. It wouldn't do any good now, at any rate, there are too many other boards. I wonder if there's any relations there...

[golden delicious]

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

Crazy. It wouldn't do any good now, at any rate, there are too many other boards.

It didn't do any good then, either. See, there was this certain wargaming company which already had a webforum and....

Well, here we are.

[hank]

I've been lurking here reading and waiting for the release of TOAW. I had the original but it was so long ago I can't remember any of the scenario's.

So, where do I go to find a list of scenario's supplied with this "soon to be released" game?

And, where do I go to see a list of user created scenario's that will be compatible with the "soon to be released" TOAW? (and is there a rating system for user scenario's?)

I'm very very interested.

Also, can anyone answer how many "stock" scenario's are WWII (east or west front; Axis vs Allies and Axis vs Soviet) ?

I hope I get an answer. I'm a long time player of Panzer Campaigns WWII battles. I haven't seen too many people make any comparisons between PzC and TOAW. I remember there were similaries between the two ... more so than between SSG (Battles in Normandy/Italy aka DBWWII) and TOAW. (I have played both DBWWII and PzC extensively).

Just another curious pbem warrior ... wanting to know more about a new experience

hank