Corsair not a killer but crap??

[castor troy]

Seen this posted from aletoledo in another thread! Have a look!

this was a nice battle, but the zero's obviously stood up better than the tojos.

Day Air attack on Kwajalein , at 79,79

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 43
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 35

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 26
SBD Dauntless x 87

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 damaged
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 19 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 24 destroyed, 39 damaged

Japanese Ships
AK Norfolk Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AD AD-3162, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported

Port hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet

Don´t know if this is PBEM or AI but look at the kill rates! The Corsairs were blown out of the sky like Wirraways. [X(] Very strange result, so I don´t have to fear Corsairs anymore?

[wild_Willie2]

Don´t know if this is PBEM or AI but look at the kill rates! The Corsairs were blown out of the sky like Wirraways. Very strange result, so I don´t have to fear Corsairs anymore?

you got lucky..... And you have mosrt likely got some extremely high exp pilots. I stock games, corsairs eat jap planes allive and haven't dared to trow my pilots against corsairs in my NIK mod game yet...

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

Don´t know if this is PBEM or AI but look at the kill rates! The Corsairs were blown out of the sky like Wirraways. Very strange result, so I don´t have to fear Corsairs anymore?

you got lucky..... And you have mosrt likely got some extremely high exp pilots. I stock games, corsairs eat jap planes allive and haven't dared to trow my pilots against corsairs in my NIK mod game yet...

It´s not from a PBEM of mine but from aletoledo. I never thought about achieving such results against the mighty all eating super Corsair.

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: castor troy
Day Air attack on Kwajalein , at 79,79

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 43
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 35

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 26
SBD Dauntless x 87

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 1 damaged
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 19 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 24 destroyed, 39 damaged

Japanese Ships
AK Norfolk Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AD AD-3162, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
7 casualties reported

Port hits 1

Time for another rant how Allies are screwed - Corsair is under rated.. this must has be fixed in 1.9[:D]

Seriously, here are my thoughts

1. CAP outnumbered enemy escort
2. CAP have alt advantage
3. all fighters perform worse when they are assigned as escort (they are much better at sweep mission)
4. Corsairs were probably only trained pilots while Jap planes were crack ones.
5. Leader role
6. and the last but not the least - Corsairs were fatigued, CAP was fresh


but this kind of results is unique, i must admit. I would like to hear from atoledo about details (was it in PBEM, exp, leaders attitude, fatigue...etc)

[JeffroK]

And with FOW these results could be halved!!

And was the AI setting on Hard, Very hard or pissweak?

[Speedysteve]

You mean you all don't know that the Corsair was shot down at 10:1 ratio?!?[X(][:'(]

[aletoledo]

its a PBEM game, using 1.8 and NikMod. my understanding is that NikMod has really reduced the Uber-Corsair of the stock game, so I don't think you guys should have a heart-attack seeing this.

I think the real reason the results are as they are is because I try to have all my pilots at 95exp before going into battle. these are some of the zero pilots that fought in the battle (there first since training really). I've found that the central pacific island never have bad weather to scrub a mission and thus you can train pilots every day constantly.

[Andy Mac]

So ground attack missions train those pilots to be the finest dog fighters who ever lived......as long as this is the case I am sorry but any complaints about allied bias etc just dont get a hearing from me

[Mynok]

I agree they shouldn't be allowed to train above 70 or so with that method. And I'm a card carrying Jap fanboy. [:D]

But they should be allowed to speed up the horrendously slow Training mission by using ground attack.

[Nikademus]

Ground attack has long been a training tactic used by both sides....for bombers and fighters.

[aletoledo]

also the altitude was easy, my opponent always comes in low, so I was able to set my altitude about 1000 feet above him. he usually comes in around 7-8,000 and I had my CAP at 60% 9,000 feet. I used to have them at 15,000 feet, but it seems that is too high and I was missing a lot more at that high an altitude.

what you don't see from this combat (as I described in another thread), is that my opponent will usually throw himself at the defense repeatedly, day after day and despite my high exp defenders, his bombers get through. even on these results you can see he sank a couple ships (the AD sank immediately). when he's gone against the airfield, it takes him 3-4 days to close it and then I have a nightmare to extract the planes from the field while he bombs them on the ground. In this game I think I've lost 900 helens on the ground, 500 tojos and 200-300 zeros on the ground.

I play with high exp pilots and he plays with tough and numerous allied bombers. the only problem is that when I lose a single pilot from these squadrons (and I've lost pilots on the ground from bombing which I didn't think happened), they come back at 30exp!

[Nikademus]

have you tried moving in some AA units?

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Mynok
But they should be allowed to speed up the horrendously slow Training mission by using ground attack.

The training mission was tuned to correspond roughly with the training period of your typical USN trainee during wartime. If a player wants to attempt to 'speed it up', that of itself is fine. (The Japanese had little choice) but the op losses should be tied directly to their exp levels. low exp pilots flying high preformance aircraft should = increased accident rate....not a free ticket to fully trained much less veteran status.

[aletoledo]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

So ground attack missions train those pilots to be the finest dog fighters who ever lived......as long as this is the case I am sorry but any complaints about allied bias etc just dont get a hearing from me

perhaps it is a bit much, initially I didn't really intend it. I had these planes guarding a remote central pacific island. I set them up to start training with airfield attacks on the island right next to them and then literally forgot about them. my opponent and I play so many turns each day that I probably never even looked at their island for over a month! when I came back to them I saw that around 90 missions they were hiting in the 90's experience. I wasn't going to abandone air cover over this island and I felt it was a waste to have them sitting there doing nothing, so I left them training and training and training.

at first I would say this is an exploit on my part, because the allies have to rotate out, but when I lose these pilots, they come back in the 30's experience! a few squadrons I have used in the 70exp level lose against his p-38s and corsairs quite easily. I'm hoping to train one more "class" of pilots to the 90s before 1944 in this game, but I can clearly see that my training won't last past 1944 and I'll be left with pilots in the 30-50exp range, which I'm considering to simply park back in japan then.

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

So ground attack missions train those pilots to be the finest dog fighters who ever lived......as long as this is the case I am sorry but any complaints about allied bias etc just dont get a hearing from me

Greetings,

While i agree with Mynok and you please keep in mind that Allied players are responisble for that too...

Every Allied player who play Brave Sir Robin defence shouldn't complain about "advanced training". Using Sir Robin defence by Allies allowing more than enough time for ground attack training for the Japanese.

What do you think, what would Jap player do when his opponent withdraw his ac to rear areas in january 42 and waits for october 42 or february 43 - sit down with his planes?

to me, it is fair trade IMHO....Allied player waiting for his toys, Japan use this time for training his pilots....

I had one PBEM where i was unable to train more than two zero daitais in the same time and because my opponent was very agile in the air i had to pull these two groups to the frontline when they reached 70 exp.

[aletoledo]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

have you tried moving in some AA units?

oh yes, I tried that. I made the mistake of loading 4 regiments of AA into only 4 AK transports. (the AA units all seem to be able to fit into one AK)

he sank one AK (and the AA unit) with one of the million subs he has surrounding the island. he sank outright another AK with naval strikes and severely damaged the remaining 2 AKs.

therefore out of the 4 AA regiments I sent in, I managed to get 2 partial units onto the island. one unit is at about 45/90 and the other made it in at 25/30 (only support units survived).

don't cry for him because of the A2A results, because he might actually be ahead of schedule when you take into consideration the game will go to 1945. plus the fact that I can only really put up a decent defense in about 3 places and he seems to be able to mount a significant bombing campaign in about 4 places. so Rabual at the moment is completely at his mercy and ships have no chance of surviving anywhere in the area.

[Nikademus]

ah, that explains it. Deploying the limited AA assets does pose a quandry. There's also the resource bases to defend as well.

[veji1]

hmmm... I hadn't thought about it, but I guess this is a fair point, If you wait for your toys, expect your ennemy to be ready when they arrive..

Nevertheless, the Idea that you can reach exp 99 without seeing an ennemy is still not right... there should be a ceiling of some sort, at 80 maybe...

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

You mean you all don't know that the Corsair was shot down at 10:1 ratio?!?[X(][:'(]

Ya, only in WitP!

Die Rolls!!!

B

[pauk]

ORIGINAL: veji1

hmmm... I hadn't thought about it, but I guess this is a fair point, If you wait for your toys, expect your ennemy to be ready when they arrive..

Nevertheless, the Idea that you can reach exp 99 without seeing an ennemy is still not right... there should be a ceiling of some sort, at 80 maybe...

i agree - that shouldn't reach 99, it is just not realistic when veteran (80+) pilot usually get only one exp point for killing enemy ac... to be honest, i really don't know how pilots can become aces in A2A with ground attack bombing only... [:)] but this is only possible way to train pilots. And it is no matter how they good are, you will run out of them in 1943/44 (stock scenario).