Corsair not a killer but crap??

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

It´s not from a PBEM of mine but from aletoledo. I never thought about achieving such results against the mighty all eating super Corsair.

Corsair isn't an X-wing in the mod anymore thats all. It remains one of the best though.

[Andy Mac]

Thats fine but

1. 99xp is just to high IMO
2. Training WAS a slow affair I really wish they had different 'skill' factors for ground atttack/ strategic/ naval and A2A its just a tad nuts that attacking an empty AF for a month turns pilots into the best fighter pilots in the world.

Now it goes both ways allied supply missions into China turn bomber pilots into crack anti shipping strike bombers so it is not one sided by any stretch.

[Big B]

I'm having a heart attack seeing an all 99 exp sqd.

B

ORIGINAL: aletoledo

its a PBEM game, using 1.8 and NikMod. my understanding is that NikMod has really reduced the Uber-Corsair of the stock game, so I don't think .
you guys should have a heart-attack seeing this

I think the real reason the results are as they are is because I try to have all my pilots at 95exp before going into battle. these are some of the zero pilots that fought in the battle (there first since training really). I've found that the central pacific island never have bad weather to scrub a mission and thus you can train pilots every day constantly.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

2. Training WAS a slow affair I really wish they had different 'skill' factors for ground atttack/ strategic/ naval and A2A its just a tad nuts that attacking an empty AF for a month turns pilots into the best fighter pilots in the world.

Your preaching to the choir. No argument from me. I worked hard setting up the tests that led to a change from the 30 day exp 10 to exp 55 in the old executible to the 4-6 month period that corresponds with wartime training. This is why i don't use this tactic in PBEM. Its not a house rule i require of the other player....I just don't do it myself....same as with PT boat restrictions.

[Speedysteve]

I'm with you Nik. I don't 'train' my boys on bombing empty bases. I use the training mission and then send them into combat...real combat.

[aletoledo]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Thats fine but

1. 99xp is just to high IMO
2. Training WAS a slow affair I really wish they had different 'skill' factors for ground atttack/ strategic/ naval and A2A its just a tad nuts that attacking an empty AF for a month turns pilots into the best fighter pilots in the world.

Now it goes both ways allied supply missions into China turn bomber pilots into crack anti shipping strike bombers so it is not one sided by any stretch.

if there was a change though and you only gained experience with true a2a missions, would you get more experience for fighting corsairs than for fighting buffaloes? would you get more experience for fighting US forces vs chinese forces? would bombers get more experience from bombing heavily defended bases vs bombing empty bases?

[aletoledo]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

2. Training WAS a slow affair I really wish they had different 'skill' factors for ground atttack/ strategic/ naval and A2A its just a tad nuts that attacking an empty AF for a month turns pilots into the best fighter pilots in the world.

Your preaching to the choir. No argument from me. I worked hard setting up the tests that led to a change from the 30 day exp 10 to exp 55 in the old executible to the 4-6 month period that corresponds with wartime training. This is why i don't use this tactic in PBEM. Its not a house rule i require of the other player....I just don't do it myself....same as with PT boat restrictions.

I never realised they would get so high in experience, since this is the first game I've ever reached 1943 with. so it was never really intentional.

however, now when I see the 30exp pilots coming in as replacements, I see that within a year I'll have hardly any of these highly exp'd squadrons left. almost every battle I lose one or two pilots, either from a2a or from bing bombed on the ground.

[Nikademus]

You raise valid points.

In a perfect wargame (no such thing) and with computers with enough crunching power, you would have exp values for each specific mission, kind of similar to what you now see in alot of RPG's. example

Naval attack exp: 70
Airfield/Port attack exp: 92
Ground attack/interdiction exp: 67
A2A exp: 50

however this is of course, unrealistic for WitP so one has to accept some abstractions. There's really no practical means to restrict for example bomber groups from "building up" exp by bombing empty bases as its essentially the same mission. However one 'can' impose exp gain restrictions on fighter units who use ground attack to build skill for A2A combat. The "justification" would be that the fighters primary role is protection of bombers and air superiority establishment.

Another way to curb training 'tactics' is to utilize op losses tied to experience so that half trained/untrained pilots that fly actual missions in front line aircraft suffer much higher incidents of damage to aircraft and accidents (loss of aircraft) with a higher chance for injury/death to the pilot. If such a system is in place, players would be, unless pressured by external threats, obligued to use the built in "training" mission thats been in the game since UV. You retain the option to fly....but there's a con to the pro. The Japanese putting children behind the cockpits that had not had sufficient training or flight hours led to their combat and op losses switching places in terms of prominance.

For those pilots who reach fully trained....(50-55) Fighters should be restricted to A2A to gain exp but there should be a good chance for multi point gain dependant on leader capabilities. Good leaders should inspire rapid learning..(i.e. a Foss....a Sakai) Higher exp pilots should also have the best chance to avoid injury for op losses. This way its possible to have elite units in the game *and* avoid easy end-arouind methods to obtain elite status at the same time.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: aletoledo

I never realised they would get so high in experience, since this is the first game I've ever reached 1943 with. so it was never really intentional.

however, now when I see the 30exp pilots coming in as replacements, I see that within a year I'll have hardly any of these highly exp'd squadrons left. almost every battle I lose one or two pilots, either from a2a or from bing bombed on the ground.

Oh i'm not berating you for being "gamey" lol....in a game like this, I often have similar experiences...(oh did i forget about that unit i left on training?!) Just commenting in general on how i'd like to close some loopholes in the game.

Yes, the RL dilemma of the Japanese pilot training program was that they couldn't keep up with the demand. Its a quandry they didn't solve. The Germans ended up having the same problem...it just took longer to acheive. Its ironic really....you see constant threads about this aircraft or that..blah blah....Corsairs....blah blah....10:1 ratios....etc etc. What it really came down too in WWII was pilot cadres. He with the deepest cadre wins...that was the Allies and particularily the Ameircans. The Japanese and then the Germans became ineffective not so much because of any one plane type but simply because they were forced to put increasingly ineffective pilots behind the aircraft they had which led to a domino effect. The more they flew....the more ineffective they became. Attritional warfare at it's finest.

[Speedysteve]

Forget Plato or Socrates we have our own philospoher...Nikademus[;)]

In all seriousness agree with your points.

[Nikademus]

-Slides back behind the current to resume roll of silent observer....-

[Mynok]

Behind the current? Are you an Electric Bunny? [:D]

[DuckofTindalos]

Yeah... He just goes on and on and on and on and on...

[Nikademus]

[DuckofTindalos]

It's not the Corsair that's overrepresented, but the Zero that's underrepresented. Everybody knows it could outfly anything, and even a pilot with ½ an hour on type could run rings around any American aircraft.

[Speedysteve]

T you seem bitter today.....don't let the bunny get to you

[Mynok]

What's different about today? [&:] He's always bitter! [:D]

[captskillet]

If thats the case Term how do you explain the Marianas Turkey Shoot??????? (I mean those Navy boys were only flying the crappy F6F not the god almighty F4U [;)])

[DuckofTindalos]

Simple. The so-called "Turkey Shoot" never took place, being merely a figment of American post-war propaganda...[:'(]

[dtravel]

Regarding using bombing of defenseless bases/units to improve fighter pilot training, a better method (and I am NOT proposing this for the current game, too many changes would be required for it to be practical) is to have three different experience levels, maybe more. Each pilot would be rated for experience/skill in: A2A, bombing & search. Under this scheme, you could go right ahead and have your Zero pilots bomb Chinese peasants for six months. They'll do great as ground support against invading US Marines, but don't expect them to survive a dogfight. [:'(]