The Learning Begins

[pccitgo]

Bear with me you guys. One day I might be good enough to give you a decent go in a PBEM. I have run through the tutorial twice and am slowly digesting the manual (damn out of ketchup). I am reasonably familiar with the historical Marianas campaign so started with that one. Unlike the tutorial this scenario begins with Satawai in Japanese hands. So I thought I might try taking it with a force comprised of the 2nd and 4th Marines plus the VAC. Made up a Transport TF and loaded troops then supplies. Also a couple of air combat TFs that were pre assembled in the scenario were set up to attack the airfield, fighters set to escort. I sent them on their way and also set the Eniweitok to expand Port. I couldnt think of anything else to do for two turns as my ships go to Satawai. As I am still early into the manual I am only do this for a bit of gameplay learning and you probably have gots heaps of "you should be doing this" ideas. If so I am keen to hear them. Not sure yet how I tell the Marines to get off the AKs and wade ashore.

[Onime No Kyo]

You should be doing this:

1) Find large window.
2) Open said window.
3) Take manual in hand.
4) Toss manual out of large, open window.

[;)]

But serriously, the manual can be a big help, but only if you know what to look for. It is a pretty poor teacher if your intention is to learn the game by reading it cover to cover. It is much, much better at filling in the blanks like "what is the rule for this", or "what formula do they use for this" or "why does this happen". The best (only?) way of learing this game is like getting to Carneggie Hall...practice.

PS...if you have the "Unload" option set to "Unload" on your task force screen, your Jarheads should be getting off once they get there...assuming its a land hex and a valid landing beach/base.

[Bobthehatchit]

ORIGINAL: pccitgo

Bear with me you guys. One day I might be good enough to give you a decent go in a PBEM. I have run through the tutorial twice and am slowly digesting the manual (damn out of ketchup). I am reasonably familiar with the historical Marianas campaign so started with that one. Unlike the tutorial this scenario begins with Satawai in Japanese hands. So I thought I might try taking it with a force comprised of the 2nd and 4th Marines plus the VAC. Made up a Transport TF and loaded troops then supplies. Also a couple of air combat TFs that were pre assembled in the scenario were set up to attack the airfield, fighters set to escort. I sent them on their way and also set the Eniweitok to expand Port. I couldnt think of anything else to do for two turns as my ships go to Satawai. As I am still early into the manual I am only do this for a bit of gameplay learning and you probably have gots heaps of "you should be doing this" ideas. If so I am keen to hear them. Not sure yet how I tell the Marines to get off the AKs and wade ashore.

AP and LST ect unload troops quicker than Ak.

The marines will get off on their own when in a land hex unless you tell them not to. (do not unload button on tf screen).

Tanks are very useful for invasion, you wil also want engineers in your assult wave to help reduce fortification HQ help fighting efficenty and base forces in a follow up wave to allow you to get local air support as soon as you have taken the base.

Make sure you include pleanty of DD , MSW and few CL and CA in your invasion (troop) tf's to give fire support to suppress cd and arty fire other wise you'll get massive disrution on landing. Make sure you bring plenty of supplies as well.

Bombing by Carrier and lba and Bombardments also aid invasions massively, as they kill engineers and destory supply. Port attacks can help to kill / suppress CD

You should make sure you don't have your air combat tf in a coastal hex / island hex as it reduces the amount of air opps flown by half. Set them to patrol do not retire in a hex off the target and use one or two figher air groups to fly long range cap over your invasion target/fleet the rest to protect your tf's.

[niceguy2005]

Everyone has there own learning style. However, I would say that now that you have been through the tutorials, just jump in have fun and ask lots of questions. I agree with Onime that reading the manual is worth while, but don't feel you need to master it before playing the game. This is important for several reasons.

1. You could write a book on what is not in the manual.
2. There has been so much patching since the initial release you could write a second book about all the changes.
3. Some of the information in the manual (not a lot, but some) is actual wrong, in particular since all the patches came out.

I recommend continuing to read the manual between turns, but the best way to learn is to play, experiment, get whooped, ask questions on the forum, rinse and repeat.

Have fun! [:)]

[pccitgo]

In the real war before the Allies attacked Saipan they did a lot of photo recce flights. Areas that were obscured by cloud were revisited on subsequent days and the gaps in intel filled in. How does one accomplish something like this in WITP? In my present scenario where I am attempting an invasion of Satawai how do I know how many troops to use? Is the island lightly defended? Are there so many guns and troops it is standing room only? Forgive me if this covered later in the manual. I would not want to tire out my troops for the big push against Saipan unnecessarily but by the same token I would not want to suffer a big defeat at the outset.
Thanks in advance
Peter

[bradfordkay]

Repeated recon flights will improve the information you have on the defenders, but not nearly as much as they should. At the present, the best you can do is to fly recon over the target for about a week, and then go with your best bet...

[pccitgo]

Thanks for help so far. Lots of questions of course but I will press on with my plan. One thing that comes to mind is in the beginning are there things I should be doing with my assets prior to loading up my transports with troops, supplys, armour engineers etc. My plan is to take Satawai ( with aview to building abig airfield), and Woleai and then move against Saipan, then Tinian and Guam. I am moving at my own pace and not sure how far I will get before I run out of turns. One thing that needs doing I guess is softening up the enemy so bombardment TFs to Saipan would no doubt need to be a regular thing while I deal with the first two islands. Does this seem sound strategy to experienced WITP players?[8|]

[niceguy2005]

Bombardment TFs are always a sound strategy to preceed an invasion. The disruption is what really helps, more than the actual casualties.

I know search through the forum can be a daunting task, but it will really be worth your while when it comes to planning successful invasions. There should be plenty of threads on the subject as the question comes up every few weeks.

However, glad to offer some pointers and answer specific questions.

There is really only one way to go about a successful invasion and that is good planning and logistics.

A. When possible (time allowed) prep your units for the destination
B. Take more than you need in terms of men and I try to keep another 50% on ships in reserve in case the worst happens.
C. Don't just take INF. You need armor and probably combat engineers (engineering rgt)
D. Supply should be loaded on ships with your troops (others may disagree), PLUS you need an additional convoy with lots of supply loaded on board. A typical noob mistake is to put men and supplies on the same ship. What happens is the troops unload first, then the supplies so your guys are on the beach with no bullets to shoot.
E. Always have a surface TF to escort your transports in case there is surface action
F. If the landing will be heavily contested have lots of MSW, gunboats and DDs to supress shore fire. I think even CLs will contribute to landing support, but not sure.
G. Provide air cover when possible for all major operations. (CV or CVE TF set to escort)
H. I like to have two bombardment TFs on major landings. The first will hit the beach 1-2 days before the landing and then hightail it to a base to reload. Another TF will hit the beach one phase (AM or PM) ahead of the landing and then loiter at the landing site to provide additional surface protection. Also, BB and CA only have enough main battery ammo for one round of bombardment, but CL have enough for sustained attacks. If you 2nd bombardment group is mostly CLs they can stay on station continuing to provide support.

Hope at least a little of that helped.

[dtravel]

Just 'cause I'm in that kind of a mood, I'm going to throw something at you completely out of left field.

Dtravel's Land Based Air Checklist

Code: Select all

 Note: this listing is for Land-Based Air units only! Carrier based air units are not subject to many of these conditions. 
 
 This listing is for Offensive Missions (p. 122) only. (Airfield attack, Port attack, Naval attack, Ground attack, Sweep, Recon.) 
 
 Any page numbers listed are the printed numbers at the bottom of the manual page. Not the .pdf file page count number. 
 FRD means Fractions Rounded Down; FRU means Fractions Rounded Up. 
 
 References to 'morale checks', 'experience checks', and 'leadership checks' are assumed to be a d100 roll against the 
 stated attribute. Presumably if the roll is <= the attribute then the unit passes the check. But this is an assumption. How 
 this check is actually carried out is never stated in the documentation. 
 
 Prerequisites are conditions that must be met for a mission to be attempted at all. Once all the prerequisites are met, the 
 number of aircraft that will actually fly is determined by subtracting from the number of 'Ready' aircraft in the unit as listed 
 in Limitations. Finally, once you have gone thru all of that, your digital pilots may still not be able to complete the mission 
 for any of the reasons listed under Aborts. 
 
 Some Prerequisites and Limitations have the same number. This was done when the condition was the same but the exact 
 effects varied depending on the situation. Prerequisite #1 is an example, the minimum number of aircraft is dependant on 
 it being a day or night mission. 
 
 
 PREREQUISITES: 
 1) (Day missions only) A minimum of two (2) ready aircraft in the unit. (p.124) 
 1) (Night missions only) A minimum of six (6) ready aircraft AND a minimum unit morale of 50. (p.126) 
 2) Target must be within unit's extended range. (p.124) 
 3) If the unit's morale is < 50, unit must pass a morale check to attempt a mission. (p.126) 
 4) The initiating airfield must be greater than size 1 (except for Recon). (p. 134) 
 5) The air unit must agree to fly the mission. Some of the factors affecting whether a unit will agree to fly a mission are 
     covered in rule 7.2.2.12 (p.131). 
 6) Escorting fighters. The reference to this is highly confusing and can be interpreted many ways. A clarification on this is 
     required. It has been stated that there is a maximum number of escorts that can be required. If that max is met, then 
     the ratio of CAP:escorts becomes irrelevant. 
 7) Airfield damage must be less than 20+(Size*5) (p.165). 
 8) (Level Bombers Only) For Ground Attack missions only, the number of Ready aircraft in the unit must >= 50% of the 
     unit's maximum strength. Does not apply if unit is joining an already initiated attack. (Undocumented. Confirmed by 
     programmers.) 
 
 LIMITATIONS: 
 1) (Level Bombers Only) An experience check. Failure reduces the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) 
 aircraft. (p.127) 
 2) (Level Bombers Only) A leadership check. Failure reduces the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) 
 aircraft. (p.127) 
 3) (Level Bombers Only) A morale check. Failure reduces the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) 
 aircraft. (p.127) 
 4) (Level Bombers Only) Being outside the command radius of a friendly Air HQ will reduce the number of aircraft that will 
 fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.127) 
 4) (Non-Level Bombers) Being outside the command radius of a friendly Air HQ will reduce the number of aircraft that will 
 fly by 10% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.127) 
 5) (Level Bombers Only) If the base's airfield is below a minimum size (determined by 4 + (aircraft type's max load/6500) 
 FRD) then Level Bombers : 
      a) Will fly no farther than Normal Combat Range (no Extended range missions) (p.128) 
      b) Will carry a payload as though they were flying at Extended Combat Range (p.128) 
      c) Will suffer increased Operational losses. (p.133) 
 6) If the number of aircraft at the base exceeds airfield size *50, reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the 
 ready(?) aircraft. (p.165) 
 7) If the number of aircraft at the base exceeds airfield size *100, reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the 
 ready(?) aircraft. (p.165) (This is in addition to Limitation #6.) 
 8) If it is winter in a Cold Zone, reduce the number of aircraft that will fly by 25% of the ready(?) aircraft. (p.173) 
 9) (Non-Level Bombers) If base supplies are not >= base requirement, a maximum of 75% of the ready aircraft will fly 
 (p.190). 
 9) (Level Bombers Only) If base supplies are not >= twice base requirement, a maximum of 75% of the ready aircraft will 
 fly (p.190). 
 10) (Level Bombers Only) From the 1.3 patch: “They will still resist flying against land units, if the range is greater than 10 
 for the Japanese or 8 for the Allies, but will do so with good rolls.”
 
 ABORTS: 
 Once it has been determined that the unit will fly a mission and how many aircraft will participate, the mission may be 
 aborted by any of the following (note: the turn processing display at the bottom of the screen will show messages if either 
 of these applies): 
 1) Poor Weather. If either the initiating or target hex is experiencing bad weather (indicated on the map by a cloud symbol 
 if "Show Clouds" has been set in Preferences) there is a chance the mission will not fly at all. 
 2) Navigation. There is a chance that poor navigation or an inability to find the target will cause the mission to fail. Factors 
 affecting this are listed in rule 7.2.2.14 (p.132). In addition, Level Bombers flying from a too small airfield (see Limitations, 
 above) will have an increased chance of this. 
 
 
 VERY LOW ALTITUDE ATTACKS: 
 If an air unit's altitude is set to 100 feet, then special rules and considerations come into play. See p.129-130. Among these 
 are: 
 1) Naval attack missions will attempt "skip bombing" of their targets. Generally, should only be attempted by units with a 
 minimum experience of 60. 
 2) Heavy known flak at the target may cause the unit to abort and not fly at all. 
 3) TFs made up of only Barges and/or PT Boats can only be attacked by fighter-bombers OR air units with an altitude set to 
 100 feet. (Fighter-bombers are not required to have their altitude set to 100 feet to attack these ship types.) 
 
 
 NOTE ON AVIATION (AV) SUPPORT: 
 AV support is not required to launch a mission. However, it is required to keep planes in a Ready state so they can fly and 
 to repair any planes damaged during a mission. So air units recently moved to a base without AV support can fly a mission 
 but are unlikely to be able to recover from it to effectively fly a second. 
 
 
 HINTS, RUMORS AND INNUENDO: 
 Some players have concluded or claim knowledge of additional, undocumented, conditions that can limit or prevent 
 offensive missions. None of these are confirmed! If anyone reading this can CONFIRM the condition, please provide the 
 writer with supporting evidence so that this list may be updated. Many of these appear to be based on players' experiences 
 with other games. 
 
 a) Ground Attack missions require the target to have an unknown minimum Detection Level. 
 b) Having too many Limitations apply can cause the unit to not fly, even if the math does not reduce the number of aircraft 
 to zero. 
 
 

[pccitgo]

Awesome response guys. That will be printed and put in my manual to avoid repeating my first effort. The result was not unexpected considering my green condition. I can see now why the game is so addictive. If my TF with the 2nd Marines had taken the island with the help of my Bombardment TF and a nearby Air Combat TF then the challenge would not be there. My Intel that the island only had about 5000 defenders was sadly out - more like 15000. Did they land more troops unseen? Or was the recce not good enough. The killer blow was the sudden appearance at night of a superior Japanese TF that knocked the bejeesus out of my TFs and finally ignominy was the surrender of the 2nd Marines.
Second attempt begins tomorrow. More Bombardment, more troops, more sir support. Definitely more ships.
Semper Fi

[saj42]

It's the only way to learn.[:)]
whatever the intel shows as strength of defenders, I double the estimate and then bring 3:1 superiority.
As others have said you need to include:
Combat Engineers (organic to Marine Div)
Armour
Adequate preparation for your assualt troops
Shore bombardment prior to landing
Ground attack by aircraft - targeting enemy ground units on the day of landing
Correct loading of your assault ships

Have fun

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!

It's the only way to learn.[:)]
whatever the intel shows as strength of defenders, I double the estimate and then bring 3:1 superiority.
As others have said you need to include:
Combat Engineers (organic to Marine Div)
Armour
Adequate preparation for your assualt troops
Shore bombardment prior to landing
Ground attack by aircraft - targeting enemy ground units on the day of landing
Correct loading of your assault ships

Have fun

I think Tallyho is right on the money about recon. Double the number of troops detected at least and then bring a whole lot more then that.

Also, I complyetely forgot in my above post...bring an amphib HQ if you have one available. They get loaded onto...I can't recall the ship type, but its a special amphib HQ ship designed to coordinate invasions from the beach. important for the amphib HQ to work it must be loaded on the ship in the hex of the invasion. That means that they do not unload onto the beach. They must be set not to unload.

[ckk]

Amphib FORCE HQ's will load only on AGC command ships-Amphib Corps act like any other Corps HQ[;)]

[niceguy2005]

That's the ship...can never remember AGC's

[Mike Solli]

We Japanese don't need no stinkin' AGCs.[:D]

[ckk]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

We Japanese don't need no stinkin' AGCs.[:D]

[:'(]...........[:D]

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

We Japanese don't need no stinkin' AGCs.[:D]

'Cause ya ain't got no Amphib Force HQs!