Map changes in the works - and a possible new name

[bradfordkay]

"And since I have not said so for a few weeks - let me say that it is Andrew Brown's Extended Map that brought me to WITP for real. I own a version 1.0 copy - and NEVER was willing to attempt to use it with the (explitive deleted) stock map. Joe wrote "Andrew must be a genius" for figuring out his map - and I second the motion."

I'm in a similar boat Sid. I got my copy on the day of release but just dabbled in it for the first few months. The inaccuracies of the stock map just spoiled the whole game for me. Once Andrew released his map the following January (about six months after the release of the game), I have been dedicated ever since. I still take the occasional break for a week or two, but WITP is the game I will always keep coming back to.

Funny, I have a copy of WPO sitting on the shelf, but I can't bring myself to play it because it uses the stock WITP map...

[JeffroK]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I wonder if it is practical to make a bit more of the approaches to the Gulf of Panama on the map? That way patrol aircraft make more sense - and ships have a number of possible routes - making submarine interception less than an exact science. The "mini-map" already exists: can it be expaned a bit to Westward?

Create the "Barrier" further out and then allow space for a small "Ocean where ships and subs have some space for manouvre

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I wonder if it is practical to make a bit more of the approaches to the Gulf of Panama on the map?

The approaches can be made wider, but that would come at a cost. The "barrier" between the Channels and the Pacific is made wide enought that no carrier borne aircraft can cross it. if you widen the channels, or the area around Panama, then the barrier becomes narrower, possibly to the point where "magic" CV aircraft action across the barrier becomes possible. Or the barrier juts out more into the Pacific, narrowing the on-map area for ships.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: el cid again

I wonder if it is practical to make a bit more of the approaches to the Gulf of Panama on the map?

The approaches can be made wider, but that would come at a cost. The "barrier" between the Channels and the Pacific is made wide enought that no carrier borne aircraft can cross it. if you widen the channels, or the area around Panama, then the barrier becomes narrower, possibly to the point where "magic" CV aircraft action across the barrier becomes possible. Or the barrier juts out more into the Pacific, narrowing the on-map area for ships.

I cannot imagine carrier action in the Eastern Pacific unrelated to Panama
and I think that action related to Panama is possible - so the trade off of a jutting barrier seems well worth it to me. I think the problem of the approach to Panama should be made more complex by a wider Gulf of Panama area. That way a sub has to guess just where a convoy will sail - and there is room to maneuver if a real battle develops. Perhaps Panama can be moved to the wrong "latitude" - meaning farther south?
So the barrier can be in the SW map area and the paths to Panama possibly less convoluted.

[CobraAus]

to open the area up why not move the Matrix logo and the Terrain key panel to non combative area the top right - Hudsons bay - clear all hex data make ocean only - rebuild the Panama area with working locks then work out what you want to setup in area off the Panama coast and how far out to extand at the same time introduce Madagasca onto left side of map

whats the distance from the Panama lock exit to San Fran or Los Ang.

Cobra Aus

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: CobraAus
whats the distance from the Panama lock exit to San Fran or Los Ang.

The distances on my map are all approximately correct. That is why Panama is placed where it is, and the channels are drawn where they are and in the manner that they are.

Also, if you make the canal passable to shipping, then there is nothing to ship Japanese subs, and even surface ships, from moving through the canal at any time, even if still owned by the Allies. That is why the canal is "closed" on my map, and all ships arriving through the canal appear at Panama City.

Andrew

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: CobraAus

to open the area up why not move the Matrix logo and the Terrain key panel to non combative area the top right - Hudsons bay - clear all hex data make ocean only - rebuild the Panama area with working locks then work out what you want to setup in area off the Panama coast and how far out to extand at the same time introduce Madagasca onto left side of map

whats the distance from the Panama lock exit to San Fran or Los Ang.

Cobra Aus

Good idea - use the Hudson Bay area for the logo and legend of the map.
Close to brilliant - it is so simple one wonders "why didn't I say that first?" - the true sign of brilliance.

The Mariners Pocket Companion shows 2800 nautical miles from San Diego to the Panama Canal. It shows 3200 to San Francisco. It shows 4000 to Seattle.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

ORIGINAL: CobraAus
whats the distance from the Panama lock exit to San Fran or Los Ang.

The distances on my map are all approximately correct. That is why Panama is placed where it is, and the channels are drawn where they are and in the manner that they are.

Also, if you make the canal passable to shipping, then there is nothing to ship Japanese subs, and even surface ships, from moving through the canal at any time, even if still owned by the Allies. That is why the canal is "closed" on my map, and all ships arriving through the canal appear at Panama City.

Andrew

For the record, the Panama Canal is NOT closed in late versions of the CHS map. Colon Panama is a fully functioning port. The possibility of passing through Balboa/Panama City - with the 16 inch gun coastal defenses - and the air groups - seems remote. But of course the Allies can be stupid and not defend the place. I figure Andrew was right to put those victory points there - and Cobra agreed - so we made the area a real part of the combat map. You want to keep that nice free supplies/fuel enter the map - not to mention all those units showing up - hex? Defend it! Like it was important. This way players have real incentives not to strip Panama. And anyone wanting to use Andrew's map with RHS can do so - with an open canal - by using the RHS pwhex file with Andrew's art panels. [Of course, you also get river navigation, island ferries, stuff like that, in the package] Once again, the very similar RHS and CHS philosophy results in player options - this is one of the differences.

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: CobraAus

to open the area up why not move the Matrix logo and the Terrain key panel to non combative area the top right - Hudsons bay - clear all hex data make ocean only - rebuild the Panama area with working locks then work out what you want to setup in area off the Panama coast and how far out to extand at the same time introduce Madagasca onto left side of map

whats the distance from the Panama lock exit to San Fran or Los Ang.

Cobra Aus

Nothing like thinking out of the map, I mean box, hehe.. [&o]

[CobraAus]

The Mariners Pocket Companion shows 2800 nautical miles from San Diego to the Panama Canal. It shows 3200 to San Francisco. It shows 4000 to Seattle.

thats strange I used www.distances.com this morning (this is a site where you put in 2 ports and it will calculate the sailing distance betweem in nautical miles) the site reported a distance of 5046 NM from San Fran to Panama City port to port


[font="arial"]Search Results[/font] Distance = 5807 Nautical Miles

Time usage = 20 days 4 hours

Departure from SEATTLE
Port Code: USSEA
Country: USA - WASHINGTON
Longitude: 122°20'W
Latitude: 47°36'N
Date: 05-06-2006
Time: 00:00
Arriving to PANAMA CITY
Port Code: USPFN
Country: USA - FLORIDA
Longitude: 85°40'W
Latitude: 30°10'N
Date: 25-06-2006
Time: 04:00

Cobra Aus

check the site out
link http://www.distances.com/

Cobra Aus

[el cid again]

Maybe the site is using some sort of shipping line method - instead of great circles?

[CobraAus]

The Mariners Pocket Companion

ok what will the book show for
Colombo to Diego Suarez
Tamatave to Perth
Karachi to Diego Saurez

Cobra Aus

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Maybe the site is using some sort of shipping line method - instead of great circles?

Strange, I thought that was precisely what shipping lines used.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Maybe the site is using some sort of shipping line method - instead of great circles?

Strange, I thought that was precisely what shipping lines used.

Oddly enough, often not. See the famous Mercatur navigation chart long sold (and in all the movies). [You are a fanatic when you have the 13 foot long version on one of your walls]. It has standard shipping lanes marked. You will see cases where TWO DIFFERENT lines are marked for the SAME route - with a seasonal note. And you will see more than a few cases where great circles are not used - for various geographic and meterological reasons. In the case of the run to/from Panama up to California, you really CANNOT use a great circle either - you must clear the Baja California coast and shoal waters.  So the closest you can come is to run TWO different ones - and it may be some other solution is common. 

[Herrbear]

ORIGINAL: CobraAus

The Mariners Pocket Companion shows 2800 nautical miles from San Diego to the Panama Canal. It shows 3200 to San Francisco. It shows 4000 to Seattle.

thats strange I used www.distances.com this morning (this is a site where you put in 2 ports and it will calculate the sailing distance betweem in nautical miles) the site reported a distance of 5046 NM from San Fran to Panama City port to port


[font="arial"]Search Results[/font] Distance = 5807 Nautical Miles

Time usage = 20 days 4 hours

Departure from SEATTLE
Port Code: USSEA
Country: USA - WASHINGTON
Longitude: 122°20'W
Latitude: 47°36'N
Date: 05-06-2006
Time: 00:00
Arriving to PANAMA CITY
Port Code: USPFN
Country: USA - FLORIDA
Longitude: 85°40'W
Latitude: 30°10'N
Date: 25-06-2006
Time: 04:00

Cobra Aus

check the site out
link http://www.distances.com/

Cobra Aus

I notice that it says the location in your example says Country: USA-Florida for Panama City. Could that be the difference? Different locations.

[el cid again]

Maybe - there is a Panama City in Florida. But if they run a great circle there from Seattle - you need some sort of plow to make a sea route!
Lots of programs do this. I have some old DOS ones that ignore land 100% of the time!..

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

Maybe - there is a Panama City in Florida. But if they run a great circle there from Seattle - you need some sort of plow to make a sea route!
Lots of programs do this. I have some old DOS ones that ignore land 100% of the time!..

With a latitude of 30 deg, this would be the panam City in Florida.