RHS Version 2.60 Project [Updated at end]

[Monter_Trismegistos]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos
2) Have you ever thought about adding even bigger transport submarine? Sen-Ho type 2650ts on surface, 15kn max, 13000NM @ 14kn, armament: 2x80(mortar) 7x25aa 4tt533, 390(!) tons of cargo. Historically one completed : I-351 (comm 450128)

You missed it - it is present - as Type D1/D2.

I think you are confusing class Tei-Gata (D1 1440t and D2 1660t, I-361 to 373 and later) already in RHS with much bigger class (2650t) that I proposed: Sen-Ho (I-351 to 353)

3) To keep the same pattern: ship with names "SS-1 Koryu Maru" and "SS-2 Banryu Maru", you could also rename "SS-3" (slot 2834) to "SS-3 Kairyu Maru".

Actually - that is history! ONLY these first two ships had names!

I found somewhere name for third vessel. Actually it seems that names were first while SS-xx designations came later. Ouch, I cant find now where I found third name... Errr lets leave it for now...

6) Dutch PTs: TM-14 and T-15 should arrive in January 1942.

How do you know this? I am happy to fix it.

From here: http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/TM4class.htm
But now I think we should forget it. Due to some kind of bug even if they are set to arrive in January 1942, you can summon them on 8.12.1942 by simply putting create PT-boat button.

7) Ship 6372: LSD Lindenwald arrives 431015 before her historical commisioning date 431209.

That is because my Russian material says otherwise. I bet I have her completion date, which may not be the same thing.

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/amphib/ <-- online version of something called Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships (DANFS). Very helpful, giving commisioning dates, also sometimes exact date of transition to Pacific. The last one in case of LSD in question is not important as they were built in California.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

For LSTs. I have no list as such, I only have my ship file for my own mod, where I modified all LSTs. This wouldn't satisfy you because of different between us criterias of when ship should be available. I used comm date when commisioned on West Coast, comm date + 1 month for commisioned on East Coast or Inland, last European operation date + 2 months for those transferred from ETO.

I know you have the rule that website is no source. But I have anbother rule: good site (which gives a lot of data ) is a better than no sources at all. Here http://warships.web4u.cz/tridy.php?lang ... USA&typ=LS you have detailed info on LSTs: comm dates, shipyard where they were completed, also list of operations in which they took part. Easily to track if LST was ever in PTO.

[DuckofTindalos]

It's&nbsp;extremely arrogant to say that&nbsp;websites can't be sources. The serious ones aren't just based on stuff that the authors have pulled out of their butts. I use the one Monter mentions, plus Haze Gray and Underway and NavSource.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

It's extremely arrogant to say that websites can't be sources. The serious ones aren't just based on stuff that the authors have pulled out of their butts. I use the one Monter mentions, plus Haze Gray and Underway and NavSource.

Well - in my youth I probably was regarded as extremely arrogant!
But in this case, I am using the CHS standard - it has to be a scholarly source. Even so, sometimes these are available on the web - for example the Dictionary of American Fighting Ships is on the web - and for free you can use this very official and scholarly source. It would suffice for LSTs too - if you have time to look up a thousand of them. I cannot do that and keep doing general work on the mod. I need a list which I can verify by spot checking. It takes me a lot of time just to enter the data - and I am not going to look up every last ship. It does not matter really if an LST has the right name or not. It is chrome. SOME LST was there - and more than we have in CHS or stock. IF I get a better list I will use it. And let me worry about the sources - I have them pretty much all - once I know what you are using I can check to see it is right. If I need help out of Japan - I have it - from National Diet Library and JMSDF - in a matter of hours. Same for other countries. Mostly all I need is the data and why you think it is right - I will deal with the sources part if they are not up to standard as given to me. What I don't have is time to research the entire theater to the last machine gun alone in this century.
If it is wrong, tell me what is right, and how you know that? If I can verify it, I will use it.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

For LSTs. I have no list as such, I only have my ship file for my own mod, where I modified all LSTs. This wouldn't satisfy you because of different between us criterias of when ship should be available. I used comm date when commisioned on West Coast, comm date + 1 month for commisioned on East Coast or Inland, last European operation date + 2 months for those transferred from ETO.

I know you have the rule that website is no source. But I have anbother rule: good site (which gives a lot of data ) is a better than no sources at all. Here http://warships.web4u.cz/tridy.php?lang ... USA&typ=LS you have detailed info on LSTs: comm dates, shipyard where they were completed, also list of operations in which they took part. Easily to track if LST was ever in PTO.

I still need a list. Can you dump your file and print the name field? Say load it into WITPExcel and print the left column? Just use the Allied Warships spreadsheet. There is also WITP Utility - dump to that - and send it raw. Something. I can spot check using the dictionary of american fighting ships and verify the list is valid.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos
2) Have you ever thought about adding even bigger transport submarine? Sen-Ho type 2650ts on surface, 15kn max, 13000NM @ 14kn, armament: 2x80(mortar) 7x25aa 4tt533, 390(!) tons of cargo. Historically one completed : I-351 (comm 450128)

You missed it - it is present - as Type D1/D2.

I think you are confusing class Tei-Gata (D1 1440t and D2 1660t, I-361 to 373 and later) already in RHS with much bigger class (2650t) that I proposed: Sen-Ho (I-351 to 353)

I think so too. For one thing, your armament is the same. For another, your size is too small to be "much bigger." D1 is 2215 tons and D2 is 2240 tons -

However - I DO have a bigger transport sub I failed to mention - the I-402 - a tanker - at more than 6500 tons! I suppose I could make a non-tanker variation of that for ESO. Since the I-400 series is barely present in BBO it is not relevent there. But ESO is based on CVO - and there the I-400s are important. Further, 18 were planned - and they get quite exotic. Fully 6 were to have nuclear engines - and there really was a tanker variant - so a transport variant is quite logical.

There is also a real I-351 - and a sister not completed - I-352 - nearly complete when bombed. That weighs in at 4290 tons - and must be the one you have in mind. It should be in RHS - and isn't. Thanks.

3) To keep the same pattern: ship with names "SS-1 Koryu Maru" and "SS-2 Banryu Maru", you could also rename "SS-3" (slot 2834) to "SS-3 Kairyu Maru".

Actually - that is history! ONLY these first two ships had names!

I found somewhere name for third vessel. Actually it seems that names were first while SS-xx designations came later. Ouch, I cant find now where I found third name... Errr lets leave it for now...

Right - the names came first - they ran out or something - and used numbers - giving SS-1 and SS-2 retroactively as it were.

6) Dutch PTs: TM-14 and T-15 should arrive in January 1942.

How do you know this? I am happy to fix it.

From here: http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/TM4class.htm
But now I think we should forget it. Due to some kind of bug even if they are set to arrive in January 1942, you can summon them on 8.12.1942 by simply putting create PT-boat button.

Apparently not in CHS or RHS - because we don't put them in the right slots for the program to find them. I changed the dates to 420105 and 420110.

7) Ship 6372: LSD Lindenwald arrives 431015 before her historical commisioning date 431209.

That is because my Russian material says otherwise. I bet I have her completion date, which may not be the same thing.

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/amphib/ <-- online version of something called Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships (DANFS). Very helpful, giving commisioning dates, also sometimes exact date of transition to Pacific. The last one in case of LSD in question is not important as they were built in California.

Doesn't matter - I never looked up every last auxiliary and transport - and happily fix bad data inherited (along with my own bad data when errors are found).

[Monter_Trismegistos]

ORIGINAL: el cid again
I think so too. For one thing, your armament is the same. For another, your size is too small to be "much bigger." D1 is 2215 tons and D2 is 2240 tons -

There is also a real I-351 - and a sister not completed - I-352 - nearly complete when bombed. That weighs in at 4290 tons - and must be the one you have in mind. It should be in RHS - and isn't. Thanks.

We were talking about different displacements. I was giving you standard on surface displacement, you were giving me standard submerged displacement. All is correct, my books give them both for SSs and 4290t submerged for I-351 is same in my book.

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I've just been through the stock LST list and found 49 ships that shouldn't be in it, either because they were in the Atlantic, were never finished or were converted to other roles before being commisioned (i.e. were never LST's in the first place).

I have been slowly working on this.. Indeed, there are quite a few included that should not be and more that should be and are not. Even for the ones that should be the arrival dates are all awry.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I've just been through the stock LST list and found 49 ships that shouldn't be in it, either because they were in the Atlantic, were never finished or were converted to other roles before being commisioned (i.e. were never LST's in the first place).

I have been slowly working on this.. Indeed, there are quite a few included that should not be and more that should be and are not. Even for the ones that should be the arrival dates are all awry.

It is a pain and AKW has been kind enough to work on it - and also the even bigger problem of AKs - probably so he can use them in his mod - but he is sharing - and that is very nice. He also did a review of Allied warships - and corrected lots of errors in weapons and armor and fuel and such.&nbsp;&nbsp; Then there is the US Army - which he did in great detail.&nbsp; All in all, he works as hard as Cobra or I do - and is an unsung but major contributor to RHS.

[el cid again]

L-15 transits via Panama and shows up during that transit. You will recall our discussion of the loss of L-16. The two subs were in transit together!
L-16 was lost to a Japanese I boat attack - which was properly recorded in her log- but a mystery during the war.

[CobraAus]

V2.59.6 medium update posted on link page

Cobra Aus

[Monter_Trismegistos]

But she transited (at least they had plan to) in reverse way!!! FROM Vladivostok to Arctic via Panama!!! At 411207 L-15 and L-16 were part of Far East Fleet!

It seems that you have joined "counter-course club"

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

But she transited (at least they had plan to) in reverse way!!! FROM Vladivostok to Arctic via Panama!!! At 411207 L-15 and L-16 were part of Far East Fleet!

It seems that you have joined "counter-course club"

I see - they were LEAVING the Far East! Didn't understand that.
OK - they can start in Vladivostok.

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

For LSTs. I have no list as such, I only have my ship file for my own mod, where I modified all LSTs. This wouldn't satisfy you because of different between us criterias of when ship should be available. I used comm date when commisioned on West Coast, comm date + 1 month for commisioned on East Coast or Inland, last European operation date + 2 months for those transferred from ETO.

I know you have the rule that website is no source. But I have anbother rule: good site (which gives a lot of data ) is a better than no sources at all. Here http://warships.web4u.cz/tridy.php?lang ... USA&typ=LS you have detailed info on LSTs: comm dates, shipyard where they were completed, also list of operations in which they took part. Easily to track if LST was ever in PTO.

Actually you should be wary of just using commisioning dates. A newly commissioned ships is not a fully funtional ship. There is usally a period of shake down, post shake down refits, and a myriad of training that needs to be accounted for before any commissioned ship is able to report fit for duty. The DANFS has more complete data and you can actually get at times where the ship reported for her first assigment. For LST on the west coast this is typically 30+ days after commissioning. For east coast units, counting transit times and all, 45+ days till the ship arrives at Balboa. Also, be careful which commissioning date u use. Many ships commissioned for the purpose of moving from one builder to another that would typically make convert the ship into one of many types of auxilliaries and transports, to name a few.

If you like I am amost finished with a major update of commissioned USN vessels in the Pacific. i have completed about half of the LST list, but am looking for someone to take over doing some of it.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

I have access to internet only, and no access to any real library in US. And in online DANFS only 50 or so LST are described.

About dates of commisioning. I was trying to take the same rules as in other ships. Note that in CHS 1.6 all arrival dates are screwed. And if they are correct, ships like DDs and BBs are arriving at their commisioning date. I used comm dates also for LST, to keep ships with the same scheme.

Also, you mean 30 days of shakedown after commisioning or overral? So crew had to have two months (starting one month before commisioning) of training before their first basic missions could be executed?

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

For LSTs. I have no list as such, I only have my ship file for my own mod, where I modified all LSTs. This wouldn't satisfy you because of different between us criterias of when ship should be available. I used comm date when commisioned on West Coast, comm date + 1 month for commisioned on East Coast or Inland, last European operation date + 2 months for those transferred from ETO.

I know you have the rule that website is no source. But I have anbother rule: good site (which gives a lot of data ) is a better than no sources at all. Here http://warships.web4u.cz/tridy.php?lang ... USA&typ=LS you have detailed info on LSTs: comm dates, shipyard where they were completed, also list of operations in which they took part. Easily to track if LST was ever in PTO.

Actually you should be wary of just using commisioning dates. A newly commissioned ships is not a fully funtional ship. There is usally a period of shake down, post shake down refits, and a myriad of training that needs to be accounted for before any commissioned ship is able to report fit for duty. The DANFS has more complete data and you can actually get at times where the ship reported for her first assigment. For LST on the west coast this is typically 30+ days after commissioning. For east coast units, counting transit times and all, 45+ days till the ship arrives at Balboa. Also, be careful which commissioning date u use. Many ships commissioned for the purpose of moving from one builder to another that would typically make convert the ship into one of many types of auxilliaries and transports, to name a few.

If you like I am amost finished with a major update of commissioned USN vessels in the Pacific. i have completed about half of the LST list, but am looking for someone to take over doing some of it.

We are in complete agreement on when ships become useful: I generally require two months for US ships - unless I know the actual date of appearance - which I looked up for every major ship. And one month for a minor vessel. Further, I believe we have many ships that were never PTO at all: I found 12 LSTs never even in USN except technically during building - all were transferred to UK or Greece in ETO! There are a number of other examples, including several CVEs. There are also about 10 CVEs without air groups given them - incorrectly - these were the "jeep" carriers used for ferry duty and other tasks. [Carriers are pretty good vehicle transports, for example.] I have been and will continue to correct data as better information becomes available - and no one has changed more RHS ships than you have!

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

I have access to internet only, and no access to any real library in US. And in online DANFS only 50 or so LST are described.

About dates of commisioning. I was trying to take the same rules as in other ships. Note that in CHS 1.6 all arrival dates are screwed. And if they are correct, ships like DDs and BBs are arriving at their commisioning date. I used comm dates also for LST, to keep ships with the same scheme.

Also, you mean 30 days of shakedown after commisioning or overral? So crew had to have two months (starting one month before commisioning) of training before their first basic missions could be executed?

Two months was minimum for a warship in USN in the emergency period (1942) - by 1944 we had increased it to about six months! So yes, two months is absolutely minimum for a warship. An LST, however, can do it in about a month. Less complex. Still - the longer you take - be better a crew you get. When you allow ships in early - and I do that for Japan - they need to be rated at essentially nothing. This is tricky - you cannot enter zero - or the AI will put in a default value. So you need to enter something like 10.

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

I have access to internet only, and no access to any real library in US. And in online DANFS only 50 or so LST are described.

About dates of commisioning. I was trying to take the same rules as in other ships. Note that in CHS 1.6 all arrival dates are screwed. And if they are correct, ships like DDs and BBs are arriving at their commisioning date. I used comm dates also for LST, to keep ships with the same scheme.

Also, you mean 30 days of shakedown after commisioning or overral? So crew had to have two months (starting one month before commisioning) of training before their first basic missions could be executed?

http://www.history.navy.mil/danfs/index.html

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

I have access to internet only, and no access to any real library in US. And in online DANFS only 50 or so LST are described.

About dates of commisioning. I was trying to take the same rules as in other ships. Note that in CHS 1.6 all arrival dates are screwed. And if they are correct, ships like DDs and BBs are arriving at their commisioning date. I used comm dates also for LST, to keep ships with the same scheme.

Also, you mean 30 days of shakedown after commisioning or overral? So crew had to have two months (starting one month before commisioning) of training before their first basic missions could be executed?

Two months was minimum for a warship in USN in the emergency period (1942) - by 1944 we had increased it to about six months! So yes, two months is absolutely minimum for a warship. An LST, however, can do it in about a month. Less complex. Still - the longer you take - be better a crew you get. When you allow ships in early - and I do that for Japan - they need to be rated at essentially nothing. This is tricky - you cannot enter zero - or the AI will put in a default value. So you need to enter something like 10.

Many times DANFS indicated that arrived ships completed further training at place like PH. This might be things like formation training with division mates, up to date methods learned from recent combat, etc.

[Monter_Trismegistos]

ORIGINAL: AlaskanWarrior
http://www.history.navy.mil/danfs/index.html

Thanks! This will gratly bolster my research capabilities.

But now no time for it. World Cup Finals are just going to start!