COTA Maps and Map Editor

[CapnDarwin]

What do you guys think abount the look of the maps in COTA? I'm working on the next game in the Flashpoint series and one of the items to be revised from the original FPG (Flashpoint Germany) game was maps and map editing. The original game had beautiful hand rendered maps with lost of details, but it also made making new maps and editing them impossible. We are working on a new system now, but the trade is between pretty and uneditable and editable but plain looking. The COTA maps and editor do the things we are looking to do (with some variations do to scale and system), but we'd like to hear what you have to say on the matter so we can go forward and use the info.

Hats off to the COAT Team. The game rocks!! [&o]

[JudgeDredd]

The maps in FPG were excellent...by far the best maps I have ever seen in a wargame...however, I do understand the need to change them. So I would say, next, that the COTA maps are beautiful. They are the best I have ever seen AFTER FPG.
 
I don't think they are plain, or simply functional. They are very nice, detailed pieces of art and I would endorse womething like those for FPG.
 
Shame about the original FPG maps though...they were in a class of their own!

[Banquet]

I agree, FPG maps look wonderful. To me they have an aerial photo look to them, and they look great for it.

I love the HttR/CotA maps as well though. They are easy to interpret, look pleasing to my eyes and resemble the actual military maps used by commanders in the war. They are easy to scroll around. In short - they are great planning maps.

[Temple]

I'd always prefer plainlooking but editable myself. Once you've seen the map a few times the "prettiness" gets taken for granted, but editing usefullness is a big selling point. I made my committment to getting COTA based partially on the discussions of the map and scenario editors.

[captskillet]

Maps look excellent!!!!

[bugbear]

I'm sorry but the maps in Flashpoint are not as elegant and attractive as they might be.

Yes, they ARE works of art, but a modern sim with improved map graphics would be a BIG plus for that series. In short, while the maps ARE artistic, they might NOT be accessible to newbies or the casual gamer. IF the idea is to create functional art within a wargame setting that SELLS and includes large doses of strategic fun too; then, PLEASE make your maps more visually appealing (if possible) and more FLEXIBLE for the serious player.

COTA maps, while simple to understand, convey all the information that is needed to play well while effectively replicating specific historical environments and yet, they ALSO will prove to be easily accessible to the modder.

Sorry, if my comments are irksome. . . But, you wanted opinions. In our niche hobby, we spend most of our gametime staring at one map or another; so, IF functionality within Flashpoint is inversely proportional to attractiveness, make the maps LESS artsy and MORE functional. --After all, without "extendable" playtime opportunities via modding, Flashpoint would become a "limited" experience. . . . Probably great and unique, but finite.

[Hentzau]

Judging from the screenshots I really like the COTA maps. I prefer my maps to be understated with muted colors.

Here's a link to a screenshot of a mod by GJK for TOAW3 that does a similiar thing http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ulti ... 019826;p=1

These guys have some nice subdued maps also http://morneplaine.archeograph.com/inde ... 6ee809606c

Horse and Musket 2 has a pretty nice map editor that gives you a choice of about three different groupings of each item placed on a map so the map doesn't look too repetitive. Three different choices for buidings, or pine trees, or leafy trees, etc. Seems to work pretty nicely to break up the monotony. Check out the demo, you can play with the terrain editor in there.

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: bugbear

I'm sorry but the maps in Flashpoint are not as elegant and attractive as they might be.

We'll agree to disagree, shall we.

....IF functionality within Flashpoint is inversely proportional to attractiveness, make the maps LESS artsy and MORE functional. --After all, without "extendable" playtime opportunities via modding, Flashpoint would become a "limited" experience. . . . Probably great and unique, but finite.

That is exactly why Capn Darwin has brought up this thread....they know the limitations of the map system they have now in FPG...what they're looking for is what gamers want from their maps...a good idea, me thinks...that way they get to sell their game to more people and we get a moddable, extended life game.

Winners all round.

BTW Capn Darwin...I will be on the list for FME...I know it's a long ways off...but I'm looking forward to it.

[Oleg Mastruko]

COTA maps are THE best in the industry, period. You can't do any better than that.
 
However, don't be fooled into thinking pleasant, "muted" colors make for a simple map. Those who actually tried fiddling with the COTA editor know COTA maps are in fact *very* complex and detailed, ane require LOTS of work to make them "come alive".
 
O.

[CapnDarwin]

From a designer standpoint, I love the way the COTA map editor works. I have a nice "report/presentation" I put together a few months back that was trying to explain a system that is what the COTA editor is with a few variations to match the Flashpoint style of play and scale. The main point of this thread is to see how gamers deal with maps and editors and what they like and don't. The COTA system is the benchmark in my book, but as folks use the system and build maps what else could be better? If anything.

[Oleg Mastruko]

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

From a designer standpoint, I love the way the COTA map editor works. I have a nice "report/presentation" I put together a few months back that was trying to explain a system that is what the COTA editor is with a few variations to match the Flashpoint style of play and scale. The main point of this thread is to see how gamers deal with maps and editors and what they like and don't. The COTA system is the benchmark in my book, but as folks use the system and build maps what else could be better? If anything.

Apart from the fact that quality map making in COTA map editor is very time consuming, I have only the best things to say about the map editor (and scenario editor as well).

Perhaps it's a bit of an overkill for FPG, in that FPG system, working with 300 x 300 meter squares (was it something like that? I forgot) does not require the fine "granularity" of terrain as required for COTA?

O.

[RedMike]

I agree with JudgeDredd, FPG maps are a thing of beauty but so are COTA maps. In fact, I'd have to say COTA maps are the best I've seen all around to date. Only other series with similar concept maps is the ATF series, especially TFW and TSATC. Also a realtime game. You should look at those as well just to see how they were done.

RedMike...out

Link -> http://www.prosimco.com/