WOW!

[wodin]

What can I say. If it was possible this is a massive improvement over HTTR. So much easier to play the interface upgrades are superb.

Fantastic.

The documentation is amazing.

With all that documnatation does this mean we will see far more user made scenarios?

[Banquet]

I hope so! CotA is possibly the finest wargame I've ever played. It would be a criminal shame if there aren't a ton of user made scenario's. Hopefully in future releases previous oob's can be included.. so over time there will be a big database to choose from.

My dream for CotA is a scenario/campaign system similar to that of Steel Panthers. Imagine having a database like that - and being able to create your own battles with the CotA engine! [&o]

[Tzar007]

I, for one, would like to create scenarios. I started to create one for HTTR, never managed to finish it. I don't want to promise anything, but I certainly will try to create one or more with COTA. I love doing AARs, but scenario creation is something special too, especially if you are like me a history buff.

There had been 2 difficulties for me regarding scenario creation, that is map creation and estabs:

Creation of new maps:

It's almost impossible to get your hands on WWII maps when you want to create a new map. Unless you live near a National Historical Archive or something like that, there seems to be no website or company from which to order such maps throught the Net (unless somebody knows how, please share it with us !).

But still, if you use the maps already provided for a what-if scenario, that is not a problem.

Estabs:

You cannot create scenarios for everything and anything in WWII unless you have the right estabs for both sides. For HTTR, we had estabs for US, UK and German forces of late 1944. No we've got a bit more of what was available in 1940 for both sides, including Axis and Allies partners such as Italians, New Zealand, Australians, etc. It opens up more and more possibilities.

To workaround these 2 spots, you just need to create what-if scenarios using the maps and estabs provided for COTA. And that is already quite a lot of stuff to work with.

Also, it might be extremely interesting to try to redo HTTR scenarios so that they work in COTA with all the new features and improvements...

Perhaps this thread should be moved into the scenario creation forum...

[captskillet]

Also, it might be extremely interesting to try to redo HTTR scenarios so that they work in COTA with all the new features and improvements...

that would be very nice indeed!!!! [&o]

[goodwoodrw]

oops sorry wrong thread see supply thread[X(]

[MarkShot]

I would love to return to Arnhem, Eindhoven, and Nijmegen with the COTA engine.

I hope some of you ambtious and clever folks will convert them when BFTB is done!

[goodwoodrw]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I would love to return to Arnhem, Eindhoven, and Nijmegen with the COTA engine.

I hope some of you ambtious and clever folks will convert them when BFTB is done!

Does this mean that BFTB is going to have a much larger OOB or will you be able to create your own OOb?

[MarkShot]

Something like ... BFTB will include the HTTR estab. So, if you convert the maps and the scenarios, you'll be able to play the the HTTR stuff more or less.

[Crimguy]

So there is an OOB editor as well? For some reason I remember previous titles having a great deal of limitations. . .

[RayWolfe]

No, there will not be an ESTAB editor. But the plan is, as Mark said, to have the HTTR ESTAB included in BFTB as well as the BFTB estab.
Ray

[wodin]

Love the new supply feature.

[AlexB]

Sorry, still new to all this: what is an estab? [&:]

[CriticalMass]

Basically it is the correct organization of units.

This was usually laid down by higher authorities and was based on the current hardware, current man levels and experience in the field. That is: "we have found that the 3 tank platoon is better, with current tactics than a 4 tank platoon"; or, "rifle companies will replace all MG34 with MG42 as of August 1942 (I made that up [;)])".

This is different to the OOB (Order of Battle), which is actually manpower/equipement used in a given engagement. This, would differ hugely to the ESTAB for obvious reasons (i.e. the MG34 did in fact continue to be used in large numbers right of the end of the war).

Disclaimer: I think that's right [&:]

TANX
Andrew

[Crimguy]

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe

No, there will not be an ESTAB editor. But the plan is, as Mark said, to have the HTTR ESTAB included in BFTB as well as the BFTB estab.
Ray

Gotcha. My reading comprehension skills apparently need work.

[jungelsj_slith]

I hope that one day, this series will get the same type of treatment that the 'panzer campaigns' series had. Basically, the engine is shared between all of the games, so you have no fear that older titles will be missing cool features. Considering that, I've purchased older games just as often as I've purchased the 'latest and greatest.' It seems like once BFTB is out, there will be much less of a reason to purchase HTTR, which is unfortunate. I'm sure you guys want new fans to purchase many of your games, not just the most recent one. Anyway, just a suggestion.

[RayWolfe]

Yep, you're all on course now. [;)]
Imagine you want to design a scenario now set in North Africa at the time of El Alemien and you have your map. In the editor you could call up a British medium tank unit, name it as 7th Armoured Division. Now you're good to go with the artillery units because they had the same 25 pounders as the ESTABS in Greece but the tank brigades were equipped in Greece with A9s and 10s etc but at Alemien they'd have had Grants and Stewarts.
So you need an ESTAB with the equipment appropriate to the time you're trying to model otherwise you get King Tigers invading France in 1940, interesting for a what-if but not quite historical [:'(]
As has been mentioned, as the game series develops more and more ESTABS will become available.
Hope that answers all the points made. (Until Dave gets back and tells you that all I say is b******ks, not for the first time)
Cheers
Ray

[Crimguy]

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe
Hope that answers all the points made. (Until Dave gets back and tells you that all I say is b******ks, not for the first time)
Cheers
Ray

Is Bull**ks that bad a word in the UK? Just brings up vague notions of Sid Vicious and safety pins here in the States.

[RayWolfe]

ORIGINAL: Crimguy
Is Bull**ks that bad a word in the UK? Just brings up vague notions of Sid Vicious and safety pins here in the States.

Oh yes. The one thing we don't do over here is use f***ing swear words. [;)]
Ray

[CriticalMass]

the word is boll**ks. And when used in reference to dogs, it's a good thing, as in, "COTA is the dogs boll**cks". I think the inference is that they must be good if dogs spend so much time licking them.

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: molotov_billy

Basically, the (panzer campaigns) engine is shared between all of the games, so you have no fear that older titles will be missing cool features.

From what I can tell, going from HttR to Cota/BftB represents a quantum leap in the game engine with the introduction of supply and mixed mode movement. After that, the "West Front" issues will add some new cool features that are more particular to that certain type of operation being represented. So the guy who buys, say "AA:the Siegried Line campaign" will hopefully also want to go back and get the "AA:Battles from the Bulge" game For the Bulge Scenarios. Same for the East front, Africa, & Pacific issues.

Look at the Combat Mission series. Just as many (if not more) enjoy the older CMBB than the newer CMAK. Even the dated CMBO has a significant following.

So the only real face lift that will be needed in the forseeable future is to bring in Supply and Mixed-mode movement to HTTR, and (assuming the decision is positively made to update the HttR estabs) many of us on the WFDDT have expressed an interest to do that for ourselves, and for the faithful customers who purchase CotA, BftB, etc.

These upgraded HttR scenarios would be public offerings by the data design teams (not Matrix or Panther per se), or even by the average joe-blow designer who actually purchased HttR for the Maps & historical OOB/setup info.