I am suprised none of you have commented on this big time!

[MarkShot]

The two things that struck me most when I started playing COTA after so much time with HTTR was:

The critical importance of the road network in COTA (I am not even talking about supply here). With mixed mode movement, road blocks were no longer frustrating speed bumps for the enemy. If correctly placed, they could bring a column of armor to a dead halt. Thing of all that wooded terrain and/or polder in HTTR where the enemy still managed to slowly leak by.

The other thing which struck me most was the decreased movement rates and increased rates fatigue (and night fatigue) for forces on foot. I found that my initial construction of plans after HTTR tended to be much too aggressive and optimistic when it came to the timing of what could be done.

---

Of course, roads and resupply struck me too, but not as much as the above two items. In HTTR, supply lines often proved to a string of bread crumbs along a highway (low valued minor objectives) to simulate the importance of maintaining suppy. In COTA, the scenarios still implement the representation of a supply line using that technique. However, in COTA you cannot afford to ignore a 5 or 10 point bread crumb because you don't need the points. Regardless of the points, you WILL need the supplies.

[Tzar007]

Well, playing around with the tutorial, I realized indeed that staying on a road is quite vital if you want to reach some place in a reasonable amount of time, and most especially for motorized units. It is true that motorized units had an easier time going off road in HTTR.

But you're going to have to give us some more time with the game to realize and understand all these refinements correctly [:D]

[MarkShot]

Okay, you are right. Take another day and then get back to me.

[Real and Simulated Wars]

I'm still in a "awe" kindof phase. Never felt like that since I fired up Falcon 4.0 (a fantastic and detailed flight simulator) for the first time. I fire up the tutorial scenario, pause it and read the manual, go back to the game and so on. I want to achieve some degree of competency on the new stuff before jumping into the regular scenarios.

After a few hours with COTA, I have realized why I didn't play HttR that much: supply. Not that I have a maniac love for logistics. It is just that sometimes in HttR I would fight and (rarely) win an scenario, but the final situation of my troops were less than desirable with many of my troops completely surrounded. It was like "thank heavens the scenario ended because 4 hours more and my command would be gone". Completely encircled airborne units in HttR weren't a problem to me: those troops were supposed to fight encircled. But in some scenarios with non-airborne troops, the lack of worry about keeping interior lines was a strange feeling.
I'm very happy with the supply modeling in the game. The enemy and my forces have a now a front, a flank and a rear area that mean something for survival rather than a mere relative position to a nearby objective.
Kudos .

[JudgeDredd]

Steady Mark!!! I've only just finished the tutorial.
 
What did I think...fantastic. AI is very good. From what I saw, it abandoned a hopeless objective to reinforce another attack on another objective by coming from the right flank. Very enjoyable.
 
I did try to read the manual...but as stated before, I HATE PDFs.....and I found it very difficult t keep any level of attention...so I got to page 14 of the Getting Started manual, flitting between that and the game to run the tutorial...and then gave up and just jumped into the tutorial...getting a decisive victory.
 
A word of caution, though...although I got a decisive victory, I followed the setup of the tutotrial...so I effectively ran it in easy mode....and I had alot of tired troops...the AI was good enough to make me change my orders alot.
 
I like realistic orders delay...so I'm going to play the tutorial again with them set to realistic.
 
But the game is fantastic.
 
Thank you all involved. Your work is being appreciated.

[Temple]

ORIGINAL: Chelco

I'm still in a "awe" kindof phase. Never felt like that since I fired up Falcon 4.0 (a fantastic and detailed flight simulator) for the first time. I fire up the tutorial scenario, pause it and read the manual, go back to the game and so on. I want to achieve some degree of competency on the new stuff before jumping into the regular scenarios.

I completely agree with you on the "awe" feeling. I played HTTR but it's been a while, so I have to get over this feeling of confusion and remember that I have AI underlings to take care of the heavy lifting till I get up to speed. You know, that's funny because it's one of the things that made me iffy about liking HTTR was the lack of control! As a turn-based, hex-grid grognard I was oh so used to moving each piece myself and placing it "just so". I now have to retrain myself to think as a commander, not a gamer.

OT, but funny you should mention Falcon 4.0. When I got my copy in the binder with that enormous manual (600+ pages?),installed it and fired it up, I asked myself "what the heck do I do now?". It's that same feeling with COTA. Thank goodness for the tutorial.

[Banquet]

I'm still in Awe mode too. I noticed when you click on a unit you now get a display telling you the role of the unit in the formation. One of those additions so many devs would have not bothered with - but really helps with immersion.. total awe [:)]

I've noticed the fatigue.. I've almost wondered if it's a little too high.. had some troops - started fully rested - within 250 metres (road, downhill) they were already showing some fatigue.. I haven't studied the manual close enough yet to know how much this kind of fatigue affects combat (and can't remember from HttR)

Like JudgeDredd I gave up on the reading the manual part of the tutorial - click this unit, alt-tab, order this unit, alt-tab, notice this, alt tab, etc.. I'll do it again when I get the manual printed. I note there is a link to a manual printing service in the manual but it doesn't seem to include the CotA manual yet. Will it be included at a later date?

So far CotA feels like an incredibly professional piece of software. As someone else said, it rewards indepth study and immersion. I think this is going to fill my spare time for a long time.

[MarkShot]

Well, guys, don't forget my Mini-Guide with the AAR/tutorial. Of course, my way of approaching things is very different than Dave. Dave tends to be more focused on numbers and thinks more militarily (with real training) and I am more seat of my pants based on what has worked well in the past. However, either approach will get you to the finish line in the end.

Well once you are comfortable with the system, those AI underlyings tend to free you of a lot grunt work and allow to really play a strategy game strategically. This is opposed to having to implement the strategy by handling each and every unit one step at a time. That's what I love about this engine. It is really inviting you to examine the situation in the broadest possible strokes and interact with it in that fashion. To me this is pure elegance. Where I often get lost with other games is knowing what I want to achieve, but trying to work through all the detailed mechanics to make it happen.

A thing to remember about the series is that 75% of the battles can simply be won with simply the ATTACK and DEFEND orders. For the other 25%, you are going to need to some SECURE/DENY CROSSING and EXIT. Of course, such a playing style lacks finesse, but a good plan using the basics is much more valuable than a poor plan with lots of finesse.

[Banquet]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
That's what I love about this engine. It is really inviting you to examine the situation in the broadest possible strokes and interact with it in that fashion. To me this is pure elegance.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

[Agema]

I really like the supply thing. I'm trying to defend Malta with my hopelessly ineffective Maltese and British, and the AI Germans have pushed me back to the outskirts of Valetta, while I still have forces on either side (my front line is sort of like a huge parabola with Valetta at the apex). I'm now in trouble as nearly all my supply routes need to go through roads under fire, so I'm losing a steady drip of material. I'd love to counterattack, but sadly the KOMR regiments flee at the sound of gunfire, and the inexperienced British once a few bullets land. I'm praying better reinforcements arrive soon!

[RayWolfe]

Agema
Well think of the redress you'll have when you try Ray of Hope. [;)]
Ray
(Does a parabola have an apex?) [:'(] [;)]

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

The two things that struck me most when I started playing COTA after so much time with HTTR was:

The critical importance of the road network in COTA (I am not even talking about supply here). With mixed mode movement, road blocks were no longer frustrating speed bumps for the enemy. If correctly placed, they could bring a column of armor to a dead halt. Thing of all that wooded terrain and/or polder in HTTR where the enemy still managed to slowly leak by.

The other thing which struck me most was the decreased movement rates and increased rates fatigue (and night fatigue) for forces on foot. I found that my initial construction of plans after HTTR tended to be much too aggressive and optimistic when it came to the timing of what could be done.

---

Of course, roads and resupply struck me too, but not as much as the above two items. In HTTR, supply lines often proved to a string of bread crumbs along a highway (low valued minor objectives) to simulate the importance of maintaining suppy. In COTA, the scenarios still implement the representation of a supply line using that technique. However, in COTA you cannot afford to ignore a 5 or 10 point bread crumb because you don't need the points. Regardless of the points, you WILL need the supplies.

Slow Fury, slow there. Give them time man, the game is only out since a few days [;)]

[Agema]

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe

Agema
Well think of the redress you'll have when you try Ray of Hope. [;)]
Ray
(Does a parabola have an apex?) [:'(] [;)]

Well, in the first case, I haven't lost *yet*.

I got quite excited when I realised all those tasty AA and artillery units are actually really tough. And then I searched and found all but a handful were static. [:(]

And in the second, the answer is yes. [:)]

[RayWolfe]

ORIGINAL: Agema
And in the second, the answer is yes. [:)]

Ah, thought so. [;)]
Ray