WOW!

[jungelsj_slith]

ORIGINAL: simovitch
So the only real face lift that will be needed in the forseeable future is to bring in Supply and Mixed-mode movement to HTTR, and (assuming the decision is positively made to update the HttR estabs) many of us on the WFDDT have expressed an interest to do that for ourselves, and for the faithful customers who purchase CotA, BftB, etc.

Hmm, isn't that what I said? I'm not sure where we're really differing in opinion.

[Llyranor]

Are you on the WFDDT, simovitch?

I'd seriously consider getting HTTR if there were a 'semi-official' stance to update the scenarios with the new features (well, I'm seriously considering getting it even without, actually, just haven't made up my mind yet).

[simovitch]

molotov, you are right; we are agreeing toward the same end.

Although I have not played any of the Panzer Campaigns releases, I assume you are saying that each PC release retains backward compatibility right out of the box, which is indeed a good selling point. However there is the question of how generic the series is if you can play a game on the France '40 campaign on the same system that runs a 1944 Russian Front game.

Since the AA series is closer to Tactical level than Stategic; the compatibility issues between different theaters becomes problematic. With the exception of HttR, I can see at least backward compatibility with each release within that common time frame and theater of operations although it's not for me to say, and Dave instructed us not to make any wild claims while he is away on holiday [:D].

cheers,

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: Llyranor

Are you on the WFDDT, simovitch?

I'd seriously consider getting HTTR if there were a 'semi-official' stance to update the scenarios with the new features (well, I'm seriously considering getting it even without, actually, just haven't made up my mind yet).

Llyranor,

Yes, I'm on the WFDDT, and there have been 'semi-official' discussions in the private forums to update the HttR scenarios after BftB gets released. Hell... the maps are done, and the OOB and scenario parameters are already determined. That's most of the work IMHO.

Just need those estab files and a bit of time.

[Llyranor]

So, essentially, the maps/OOB/parameters already come attached with the original HTTR scenario files themselves. If the HTTR estabs do indeed come with BFTB, what would be left specifically for the conversion process? Balancing with the new features, etc?

[jungelsj_slith]

ORIGINAL: simovitch

molotov, you are right; we are agreeing toward the same end.

Although I have not played any of the Panzer Campaigns releases, I assume you are saying that each PC release retains backward compatibility right out of the box, which is indeed a good selling point. However there is the question of how generic the series is if you can play a game on the France '40 campaign on the same system that runs a 1944 Russian Front game.

Since the AA series is closer to Tactical level than Stategic; the compatibility issues between different theaters becomes problematic. With the exception of HttR, I can see at least backward compatibility with each release within that common time frame and theater of operations although it's not for me to say, and Dave instructed us not to make any wild claims while he is away on holiday [:D].

cheers,

I think what would be cool is if HTTR scenarios ARE remade with new features - supply, campaigns, coop, whatever, then that then should become HTTR - available as an update. It would give incentive for folks to buy each game, not just the one with the latest features.

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: Llyranor

So, essentially, the maps/OOB/parameters already come attached with the original HTTR scenario files themselves. If the HTTR estabs do indeed come with BFTB, what would be left specifically for the conversion process? Balancing with the new features, etc?

This is a good question and the more I think about it, the biggest variable is whether or not the HttR force data or one of the HttR scenario templates can be exported in some fashion. If we have to reconstruct XXX Corps, etc. company by company some things may need to be reconsidered and I'm not sure we can even answer that yet.

But IF the HttR forces can be exported, then the setup, victory, and reinforcement schedules could be reconstructed fairly easily... but there would definitely need to be a bit of balancing and playtesting for the effects of supply, exit VC's and any other new features that come along.

[Arjuna]

Hi all. Back from a short break, in which BTW I watched the old Henry Fonda Battle of the Bulge movie. Boy was that movie bad...[:)] Hopefully BFTB will have more realism.
 
On the subject of backward compatibility. Basically it is not econimically viable for us to spend precious developer resources on this. Moreover, we want to maintain our focus on developing this engine not on converting past data content. However, we will explore the option of incorporating the old HTTR estabs within the new BFTB Estab file. When combined with a means for converting old map files into the new format this will enable users to redesign the HTTR scenarios with BFTB. By that I mean users could import the HTTR maps and convert them to the new format and then design a new scenario using that map and the HTTR estabs. The scenarios would have to be built from scratch again - too much has changed to reuse these. That means that someone will have to build the OBs as well.
 
Now this is not a promise that it will be possible just a commitment to see if it can be done readily. The biggest problem is with the data structures. Because the engine is evolving with each new release, data structures and code change, sometimes to the point where old data content cannot easily be converted.
 
Further we will NOT be supporting any reworked HTTR scenarios - ie they will be user created scenarios not official Panther Games scenarios.

[GoodGuy]

Ah, the master's back [:D] Have fun digging in the forum, lotsa msgs. :p
Ppl love this game !

[simovitch]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

That means that someone will have to build the OBs as well.

Crikey!

However something tells me with a bit of careful exporting and excel programming and cell manipulation, this may not be the impossible task that it appears to be. I personally dont have the expertise to do this, but I think I know of someone who might (eddy? [;)]).

[SpeedyCM]

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe

Yep, you're all on course now. [;)]
Imagine you want to design a scenario now set in North Africa at the time of El Alemien and you have your map. In the editor you could call up a British medium tank unit, name it as 7th Armoured Division. Now you're good to go with the artillery units because they had the same 25 pounders as the ESTABS in Greece but the tank brigades were equipped in Greece with A9s and 10s etc but at Alemien they'd have had Grants and Stewarts.
So you need an ESTAB with the equipment appropriate to the time you're trying to model otherwise you get King Tigers invading France in 1940, interesting for a what-if but not quite historical [:'(]
As has been mentioned, as the game series develops more and more ESTABS will become available.
Hope that answers all the points made. (Until Dave gets back and tells you that all I say is b******ks, not for the first time)
Cheers
Ray

.

So from what you're saying here it should be possible to say simulate Rommels' 1941 assaults on Tobruk, or for that matter just about any North African engagement in '41. Though now I have said that I realise there are no Indian, South African, or Polish unts in the game however I believe in NA they all used British equipment so we might be able to use British units to represent them.
Of course I have never done any scenario building in any of the AA games so I could be completely wrong here.

[Plodder]

Yep,but then again you dont have mines just yet so Tobruk could be hard to simulate properly.

[Arjuna]

Yes but they should be done for BFTB and we'll do vehicle breakdown and recovery for Desert Crusade. But there's nothing stopping you covering the more mobile battles in North Africa. What about Lemnos, Eritrea, Syria and Iraq ( 1940 that is [;)] )?

[simovitch]

With CotA you could also cover Graziani's campaign in North Africa, up to say, Beda Fomm, and like Arujna mentioned the more fluid parts of Rommels Spring '41 offensive from El Agheila to the battles for Sidi Rezegh. These maps could be quite generic and easy to do.

I think we can offer up a Northern European Terrain Mod and you guys could try Arras or the siege of Dunkirk, or even the campaign in Norway (Greeks playing the part of Norwegians could work fine).

Lots of [8D] stuff to do here.