Maps for MWIF

[Neilster]

I think the alpine hexside graphics look good but could be improved by making them slightly narrower. That is, reducing their width perpendicular to the hexside. Less blobby.

As to the rail lines; I knew when I first raised a bit of an objection that it may not be received well. Steve had obviously put a lot of work into their automation and it's natural for him to be protective of them, especially when they do resemble those in cardboard WiF so closely. I just don't think they look any good compared to the rest of the map features.

I'm reading the Oxford Companion to the Second World War (a weighty tome) and all the maps have railways denoted by cross-tied black lines which look great, and are unambiguously railways. When I showed some MWiF screenshots to people, they were very impressed but a few said things like "What are those white things? Roads?" or "It looks good apart those those squiggly white lines".

I think Steve did a great job of representing the cardboard WiF railways. The problem, IMHO, was the cardboard WiF railways.

Cheers, Neilster

[trees trees]

I've been looking at the China maps some and I have a few questions: will the hex-lines around islands be visible? It might seem cool looking to shade in the water the way it is done, but you need to see hex-lines to know which islands are separate hexes, and which hexes have all-sea hexsides and are thus invadable.

I'm assuming a great advantage of the computer map is that the start lines can be turned on and off.

But it can stil get tricky when the weather lines lie on a river line or a political boundary. Have you thought about using dots in the weather line to help make them easier to follow in such cases, as on the paper maps?

If MWiF comes in a box over the counter, a great play aid would be to have the map already printed on a separate piece of paper. Then when the map on-screen is covered with units a player could glance at the paper map for planning. If this couldn't go in the box it wouuld be nice if the program had a simple way to print map segments on 8.5 x 11" paper, say at 50%.

[Froonp]

First, do not forget that the MWiF map I posted is an edited map, it is not the real MWiF Map. For example, the China map do not yet have the coastlines in the game. I only did this both to see if I was able to do, and also to make the map prettier.

ORIGINAL: trees trees

I've been looking at the China maps some and I have a few questions: will the hex-lines around islands be visible? It might seem cool looking to shade in the water the way it is done, but you need to see hex-lines to know which islands are separate hexes, and which hexes have all-sea hexsides and are thus invadable.

Yes.
See the accompanying screenshot of the REAL MWiF Map.

I'm assuming a great advantage of the computer map is that the start lines can be turned on and off.

The start lines are not shown on the REAL MWiF Map. This is unnecessary, because you can toggle flags in each hex who show who control it.

(...)

If MWiF comes in a box over the counter, a great play aid would be to have the map already printed on a separate piece of paper. Then when the map on-screen is covered with units a player could glance at the paper map for planning. If this couldn't go in the box it wouuld be nice if the program had a simple way to print map segments on 8.5 x 11" paper, say at 50%.

Yes, a way to print bits of the Map would be GREATLY appreciated !!!

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: trees trees
If MWiF comes in a box over the counter, a great play aid would be to have the map already printed on a separate piece of paper. Then when the map on-screen is covered with units a player could glance at the paper map for planning. If this couldn't go in the box it wouuld be nice if the program had a simple way to print map segments on 8.5 x 11" paper, say at 50%.

The map is gigantic. An earlier query along these lines led to the fact that the whole MWIF map of the earth (using normal sized board game hexes) would be a cylinder roughly 7 feet high and 6 feet in diameter. Placed in your living room, it would be quite the conversation piece - and your wife's divorce attorney would find it of use too.

A simple toggle button removes all the units from the map so you can examine underlynig terrain at your leisure (the joys of computers).

Printing is a difficult thing to code since it requires the software to support every type of printer ever created. There are operating system and printer protocol issues too.

I am going to leave it to the player to do screen captures and print screens on his own - it will not be part of MWIF.

By the way, I did a screen capture of the map at zoom level 4 which I use as my screen wallpaper.

[trees trees]

that map looks great there in Denmark.

If it comes out in a box I hope a color map, maybe two-sided at 25 or 50% could be one of the player aids, that would still alleviate so much staring at the computer screen even without units on the map. (This would help new players a fair amount I think. After a few games of WiF you know the western front terrain without even looking at it.) If it doesn't come in a box could we get the map as a file to print on our own? Screen shots are complicated to work with too.

[Froonp]

that map looks great there in Denmark.

Here is another shot. Steve allowed us for 2 shots per version.
Here is Poland, 2nd impulse of S/O 39, version 0.0.1.3.

On this shot you can see the flags I spoke about.
The ones who are half white are flags for Minor countries. It is the flag of the controling major power.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

A nice map of Denmark and southern Sweden indeed. [:)]

But I noticed a little spelling mistake on the Danish coastal cruiser (CA) "Niels Juel". On the MWIF counter it's wrongly spelled "Niels Iuel". That is not correct. The first letter in
the surname is J.

Look at this WEB site for more info about Niels Juel (and a lot of other naval vessels).

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/danish_navy.htm

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Borger Borgersen

A nice map of Denmark and southern Sweden indeed. [:)]

But I noticed a little spelling mistake on the Danish coastal cruiser (CA) "Niels Juel". On the MWIF counter it's wrongly spelled "Niels Iuel". That is not correct. The first letter in
the surname is J.

Look at this WEB site for more info about Niels Juel (and a lot of other naval vessels).

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/danish_navy.htm

Thanks.

I'll fix.

Players will be able to edit unit names too - either permanently in the data file or dynamically during game play.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

ORIGINAL: Borger Borgersen

A nice map of Denmark and southern Sweden indeed. [:)]

But I noticed a little spelling mistake on the Danish coastal cruiser (CA) "Niels Juel". On the MWIF counter it's wrongly spelled "Niels Iuel". That is not correct. The first letter in
the surname is J.

Look at this WEB site for more info about Niels Juel (and a lot of other naval vessels).

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/danish_navy.htm

Thanks.

I'll fix.

Players will be able to edit unit names too - either permanently in the data file or dynamically during game play.

I'm just glad to help. [:)]

Is there any possibility to maybe post screenshots of the different counters for
proofreading? I guess some of us reading these threads would then be able to
detect spelling errors etc. on the different counters. I guess you have playtesters
already for MWIF beta, but proofreading is a tedious work and the more eyes the
better. [:)]

It could be a good idea to start with named units (HQ's, naval units and airplanes).
You have already posted a lot of nice aircraft and naval units for some major powers.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Thanks for the offer. I’ll keep it in mind.

Patrice has already gone over all the data for the units which includes a lot of stuff: unit type, nationality, year built, day sunk, etc.. Essentially, everything you might glean from a counter’s front and back. I have corrected all the mistakes that he found (about a hundred out of tens of thousands of datum).

I do not have a program for laying out all the units on the map. For the screen shots I post, I do that all by hand.

[Zorachus99]

I don't remember anything about ski units being able to cross alpine hexsides. Am I wrong?

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Only ski and mountain units can cross them.

[CBoehm]

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

I don't remember anything about ski units being able to cross alpine hexsides. Am I wrong?

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Only ski and mountain units can cross them.

Must be a MWIF or CWIF thing...certainly not RAW AFAIK ...

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

I don't remember anything about ski units being able to cross alpine hexsides. Am I wrong?

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Only ski and mountain units can cross them.

You're right.

I have a tendency to write things from memory, which is ok most of the time. But when it comes to the rules, with their innumerable changes over the last 20 years, I have, on more than one occasion, gotten them wrong. When I write code I am more diligent. And then there are the beta testers who are tasked to find those kinds of mistakes - if and when they occur. [It's nice to see that people read all this stuff with a critical eye.]

[Manic Inertia]

Well bugger me - surely that's an oversight in RAW? If MTN can cross Alpine hexsides, it seems absurd that SKI can't... even I don't suppose Finnish Ski troops did much mountain climbing at home, but would there've been much difference between a Norwegian Ski Division and a Norwegian Mountain Division?
 
Maybe Norwegian/Swedish Ski units in MWiF can be designated as MTN units with the 'Ski' symbol to one side? Hehe then I suppose Norwegian/Swedish MTN corps would need to be given Skis as well, and then what about all the other MTN units in the game .. they all had Skis...
 
Perhaps I should just pipe down...

[Zorachus99]

ORIGINAL: Manic Inertia

Well bugger me - surely that's an oversight in RAW? If MTN can cross Alpine hexsides, it seems absurd that SKI can't... even I don't suppose Finnish Ski troops did much mountain climbing at home, but would there've been much difference between a Norwegian Ski Division and a Norwegian Mountain Division?

Maybe Norwegian/Swedish Ski units in MWiF can be designated as MTN units with the 'Ski' symbol to one side? Hehe then I suppose Norwegian/Swedish MTN corps would need to be given Skis as well, and then what about all the other MTN units in the game .. they all had Skis...

Perhaps I should just pipe down...

No... Actually this is a good question. Now if my addled brain remembers correctly if you use the 2d10 combat optional rules, both ski and mountain units get a bonus attacking in snow. Secondarily the ski units cannot cross alpine hexsides but they have nice features such as ignoring ZOC in snow and blizzard.

I like this because mountain units tend not to be ski units, but handle cold (mountain air) very well and are equipped for cold. Ski units are not specifically used for mountain combat, but instead were used to move much more freely than other units in snow.

What the Finns managed to do to the Russians in the winter of 1939/1940 was nothing less than amazing, and without the ski units mobility to attack soviet supply lines, things would have been much worse for those who lived in Helsinki.

Whether it was the Finns defending successfully at 10:1 odds, or Rommel managing to attack successfully at 1:10 odds, supply and mobility end up being crucial...

....

Shannon have the ZOC special cases been worked out yet?

[Manic Inertia]

I guess I was thinking primarily about the '40 Norwegian campaign .. the French 'Demi-brigade' that was sent over to help was an 'Alpine' unit that was equipped with skis. So how was it different to a SKI Div in WiF parlance?
 
Pedantic as it no doubt sounds, at least some MTN units would've been indistinguishable from 'SKI' units, wouldn't they? Or maybe (I'm going to guess) the emphasis with Ski units was on mobility at the expense of, say, artillery, whereas MTN units would've invariably packed a bit of heavy ordnance...

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99
No... Actually this is a good question. Now if my addled brain remembers correctly if you use the 2d10 combat optional rules, both ski and mountain units get a bonus attacking in snow. Secondarily the ski units cannot cross alpine hexsides but they have nice features such as ignoring ZOC in snow and blizzard.

I like this because mountain units tend not to be ski units, but handle cold (mountain air) very well and are equipped for cold. Ski units are not specifically used for mountain combat, but instead were used to move much more freely than other units in snow.

What the Finns managed to do to the Russians in the winter of 1939/1940 was nothing less than amazing, and without the ski units mobility to attack soviet supply lines, things would have been much worse for those who lived in Helsinki.

Whether it was the Finns defending successfully at 10:1 odds, or Rommel managing to attack successfully at 1:10 odds, supply and mobility end up being crucial...

....

Shannon have the ZOC special cases been worked out yet?

MWIF will follow RAW 7 on this. I have not examined the code I inherited (CWIF) on this point so I do not know one way or the other. Eventually the beta testers will go over everything.

Recently I have finished with the high resolution bitmaps for the unit counters (there are over 2400) and I am now working my way through making improvements to the interface and bringing in the NetPlay (Internet communications) code that Dan Hatchen has written.

I want to redo the central game engine, but I have only laid the foundation for that major undertaking. Once the new game engine is in place, I will be able to answer questions such as the one you posed quickly and knowledgably.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: Manic Inertia

Well bugger me - surely that's an oversight in RAW? If MTN can cross Alpine hexsides, it seems absurd that SKI can't... even I don't suppose Finnish Ski troops did much mountain climbing at home, but would there've been much difference between a Norwegian Ski Division and a Norwegian Mountain Division?

Maybe Norwegian/Swedish Ski units in MWiF can be designated as MTN units with the 'Ski' symbol to one side? Hehe then I suppose Norwegian/Swedish MTN corps would need to be given Skis as well, and then what about all the other MTN units in the game .. they all had Skis...

Perhaps I should just pipe down...

I think mountain units were generally equipped and trained for the alpine climbing that would typically be involved in alpine crossings. I do agree that there would seem to be some cross-over though, especially for ski troops from mountainous countries.

Cheers, Neilster

[Froonp]

Hello,

About the weather effect on the MWiF map, I don't remember what the design decision is.
Will it be an overlay to the existing graphic, or will it be new graphics ?

I though about this last night, and thought that a new graphics for each terrain for each weather effect would be great.
I also thought that it could even allow to make visible the changes that the weather sometimes makes to terrain, such as the Swamp becoming forest under Snow & Blizzard weather.

The Snowy graphics would be basically the same as the normal ones, with patches of white added.
The Blizzard graphics would be the same as snow, with even more white added.
The Rainy graphics would be the same as the normal ones, with patches of brown showing mud. I'm not an artist, mud is all I could think about when thinking about rain. Maybe another grahic effect can give a better impression about the Rain effect.
The Blizzard graphics would be the same as Rain, with even more brown.

The Snowy Swamp graphic could be a mix between the forest (for the treecover) and a little of the swamp (for the water density) with patches of white added (for the snow), thus showing that the swamps in Snow or Blizzard are treated as forests.

The Snowy or Rainy Desert Graphic would be exactly the same as the desert graphic, thus showing the effects of rain & snow weather in desert hexes, that is : no effect.
The Blizzard or Storm Desert Graphic would be the same as it would be if it was a non desert hex with snow or rain only, that is less white.

The Lakes hexes and hexsides could also change color when they freeze, being white with cracks on them to show they are frozen.

Same for example for Frozen ports. The Sea could get white around them, with cracks as in ice, to even better show that the ports are unusable because they are Frozen.

Well, the computer allow for lots of variations about the effects.


The weather effects could also be some sort of animated transparent layer added on the top of the normal map graphics, showing falling rain, or falling snow, lightly or severely falling to differenciate between rain & storm and snow & blizzard.

There could also be a sound effects for the weather, accompanying the game, rain dropping, wind howling, snow falling, gusts of blizzard blowing... Those sound effects would be on top of the normal game sounds & music.

[trees trees]

the only idea I had would be to put a little weather icon of some sort near each seabox, like a sun for Fine, a rain cloud for Rain, a lightning bolt for Storm, etc., rather than redrawing the ocean completely. it is always easy to forget the weather in a sea zone when playing the cardboard game.