Dear David Heath

[Soult]

ORIGINAL: David Heath
...
Trust us Matrix Games always has someone somewhere working on a game.
...
David

7/11/2002

Can we still trust you ? For real please: do you think it was a good decision to give this job to Marshall Ellis ?

[hlj]

I am no David Heath, but I have lost neither trust nor faith in Matrix Games ability to make EIA for computer. ^_^
 
I get the idea that you think that Marshall Ellis is the wrong guy for the job. I can understand how you could come to such a conclusion, but I don't agree with you.
 
 

[Camile Desmoulins]

ORIGINAL: Soult
Can we still trust you ? For real please: do you think it was a good decision to give this job to Marshall Ellis ?

I think that it´s an stupid question.

I'm not Marshall Ellis, but I don´t know why you can have discovered, only with 7 post, the ability or not of Marshall for this project.

Everybody wants -Marshall the firt one, sure- finish the game and play, but this is not a reason to attack to Marshall.

Only a question... Do you know another person, or another firm, that works in this game?. Another question... Are you sure that, withot Marshall, this project would be born?

I trust in Marshall. With patience, but I trust in Marshall, and I sure tha will be a good game.

Camille

[Montbrun]

ORIGINAL: Soult

ORIGINAL: David Heath
...
Trust us Matrix Games always has someone somewhere working on a game.
...
David

7/11/2002

Can we still trust you ? For real please: do you think it was a good decision to give this job to Marshall Ellis ?

Wow. What an ill-concieved, arrogant question.

I dare say, the majority of the Matrix community does not feel this way.....

[Soult]

ORIGINAL: Brad Hunter

Wow. What an ill-concieved, arrogant question.

I dare say, the majority of the Matrix community does not feel this way.....

There are just two questions, and I would like to know the answer - do you know it ? How can a question be "arrogant" ? Funny, you call my questions arrogant but feel free to speak for the "majority of the matrix community".
And what about this "feel this way" ? Did I speak about feelings ? I simply asked if there was always someone working on the project for 4 years now - Ellis said once he had other jobs to work on too.
And I really would like to know if Matrix would again give a project to a single person who can´t focus on just one job.
Now go on and tell me about the feelings of the " majority of the Matrix community"...

[Soult]

ORIGINAL: Camile Desmoulins

I think that it´s an stupid question.

I'm not Marshall Ellis, but I don´t know why you can have discovered, only with 7 post, the ability or not of Marshall for this project.

Everybody wants -Marshall the firt one, sure- finish the game and play, but this is not a reason to attack to Marshall.

Only a question... Do you know another person, or another firm, that works in this game?. Another question... Are you sure that, withot Marshall, this project would be born?

I trust in Marshall. With patience, but I trust in Marshall, and I sure tha will be a good game.

Camille

read again and you may find out that there are two questions. You really think someone "can have discovered the ability or not of Marshall for this project"
depending on the number of his postings ? Well, I am just glad you know that you are not Marshal [;)]

[coregames]

My gaming group is currently playing EiA, and having a blast. We are not in a hurry.. that option is still available. I suggest picking up a copy of the board game to tide yourself over until Matrix releases this.
I for one am glad they held it up. It was almost done, but TMR is a very important part of the game, and that fix has also allowed them to improve other aspects of it.

[Marshall Ellis]

Soult:
 
Do you still want my fan club address?

 
Thank you
 
 

[Montbrun]

LOL

[Hard Sarge]

Well, I guess I got to put it this way, I will have to try and keep my mouth shut
 
and anyone who knows me, knows how HARD that will be
 
But, I will say, I know how much work Marshall has put into trying to get this game out and to have it work the way everyone wants it to
 
this Post was not fair to either David or to Marshall, and that is just not right
 
disagree with them all you want, but don't insult them for trying
 
[:-]

[Camile Desmoulins]

Well, I am just glad you know that you are not Marshal [;)]

My dear "king Nicholas", I'm very glad that you neither are Marshall, obviously.

of course, the number of post it's useful for see who are a newcomer or not. And a newcomer that start a topic with such question is a rash newcomer, in my opinion.

Good luck, and good sense, the next time, mon ami le Maréchal

Camille

[Ursa MAior]

ORIGINAL: Soult

ORIGINAL: David Heath
...
Trust us Matrix Games always has someone somewhere working on a game.
...
David

7/11/2002

Can we still trust you ? For real please: do you think it was a good decision to give this job to Marshall Ellis ?

Is it a good decision to let VIRTUALLY ANYBODY post any kind of stupid messages? Pun intended. There should be a way to filter out idiots and internet prophets from the forums. [:@]

I was wondering whether some (most) of the forums which are not ones like general discussion etc, should be labeled as members only. And (later) preserved for paying customers only.

[rhondabrwn]

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

ORIGINAL: Soult

ORIGINAL: David Heath
...
Trust us Matrix Games always has someone somewhere working on a game.
...
David

7/11/2002

Can we still trust you ? For real please: do you think it was a good decision to give this job to Marshall Ellis ?

Is it a good decision to let VIRTUALLY ANYBODY post any kind of stupid messages? Pun intended. There should be a way to filter out idiots and internet prophets from the forums. [:@]

I was wondering whether some (most) of the forums which are not ones like general discussion etc, should be labeled as members only. And (later) preserved for paying customers only.

You can get the same kind of postings if it was a "members only" paid site. Having a few bucks to spend on a "membership" is no guarantee of competence, good judgement, or basic politeness.

I'll take the open forum approach personally.

And, incidentally, I agree with everyone else that the original post was an ill conceived and ill informed act of rudeness and an unwarranted personal attack which is not something that needs to be tolerated. Clearly... it wasn't. [:-]

[Ursa MAior]

With all respect I do not agree. If people spend money on something zhey behave somehow more thoughtful as opposed to free stuff where they feel they can demand everything. Probably because no EULA or whatever is made.

[mlees]

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

With all respect I do not agree. If people spend money on something zhey behave somehow more thoughtful as opposed to free stuff where they feel they can demand everything. Probably because no EULA or whatever is made.

Not neccessarily. Some folks feel that their monthly fee entitles them to even more "say" in the creative process, or some such idea like "The customer is always right", and " I pay 'x', so you actually work for me!".

[Murat]

The customer IS always right. Without customers you are wasting your time. I am not thrilled with how long this has taken, and do not let anyone fool themselves - this has cost y'all customers.

Having been in the debate of what things are good to include and what things can wait I am comfortable that although the product will not be exactly what I want (and if it was it wouldn't be exactly what someone else wanted) it will be satisfactory. EiH had many good improvements, and Anglophiles adore the naval changes it made. From the little feedback we have recieved I am concerned that the AI may be weak, but I am willing to give it a try. I even tried Gary's piece of crap World at War after my comments there and ended up returning it for a full refund and the hope that he never releases another like it.

Soult is right about a lot of things: this game has already taken too long to bring to the table, the focus on it has been divided, feedback atrocious and the devs and Matrix rely far too much on the 'oh well, adjust' mentality to frustration and concerns. Marshall stayed away from the forums for an undue amount of time and Matrix just ignored everyone.

BUT things seem to have changed for the better recently. Input was allowed, more communication has been had, and repairs are being made to a product that candidly appears to still not be ready for release (at least from the beta test reports).

[mlees]

The customer IS always right. Without customers you are wasting your time.

This statement is the only one I disagree with.

Allow me to give an example. I play a Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game. The biggest.

If you go look in on thier forums, you would see all kinds of paying (subscription is $15 a month) customers offering thier opinions (some of them quite strongly worded) on nerfing this character class, buffing that class ability, and so on, a lot of which contradicts the opinions of other customers. But each opinion is based only on what that individual customer wants.

Some ideas are listened to, and acted upon. (Like improvments to the User Interface.) But cries for "nerf" because a segment of the playerbase can't figure out the correct strategy for dealing with a particular in-game situation (for example) are (correctly, imo) ignored.

[SamuraiProgrmmr]

[:@]  I have had all I can stand [:@]

There are several ways of releasing a product.

• Don't tell anyone until it is done and say 'Here it is!'  This prevents being exposed to the ill will of whiners during development.  It also prevents anyone who is a possible customer from having any input into how the game should be designed.  Also, the whiners will still whine after the release.
• Tell everyone well in advance.  This exposes you to the ill will of whiners.  It also makes the end product better because intelligent well informed experienced gamers can voice their opinions.  By the way, the whiners will still whine after release.
• Find the middle ground.  Tell everyone in advance of release but not too far in advance.  This is the worst of all.  The whiners will still whine both during and after the release.  However, many good suggestions will get to the developers after it is too late to use them. 

As a developer myself, I can assure you that smooth, clean addition of features is best done early in development.  I would say that at least half if not 75% of problems with software are due to features being added after it was too late to change the basic infrastructure of the code.  Having the courage to solicit and implement suggestions from (hopefully) experienced, well informed gamers is a good thing for the finished product.

Now I would point out that (from what I have gathered by following this post) the reason this product is on hold right now is because Marshall decided to pay attention to experienced EiA players and make some radical changes to how some things were implemented.  IMO, his choices were

• Ignore the advice intending to fix it with a patch and hope that the roar of the whiners didn't make the company end development before it could be fixed.
• Ignore the advice intending to fix it with Version 2 and hope that the lure of money outweighed the roar of the whiners and the company actually was interested in publishing a Version 2.  (This, by the way, would possibly have given us a product that was less than playable.)
• Listen to the advice, fix the program, expand the cost of development, and endure the whiners.  In other words, do the right thing and be punished for it.

[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]
ALL HAIL MARSHALL'S COURAGE
[&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]

How many times have you bought a game you hardly knew was coming out and felt abused by the lack of quality or even playability?

How many times have you bought a game, installed the patches, read the readme and found out that the things you wanted / needed would only be considered for a new version that you would have to pay full price for?

How many times have you wished that developers would only ASK SOMEONE WHO KNEW SOMETHING ABOUT THE GAME before it was too late to fix it?

(By the way, I am sure Marshall knows something about the game.  However, 25 years of wargaming experience has shown me that just because your gaming group is SURE about something doesn't mean that another gaming group knows more than you.)

So now --- TO THE WHINERS OUT THERE --- you know who you are


QUIT PISSING IN THE SOUP!!!!!!

IF YOU KEEP THIS UP, NO GAME COMPANY WILL EVER DO A GOOD WARGAME AGAIN!!!!!!

If you want that to happen, just keep it up.

If you want to have good computerized wargames, then quit your bellyaching.  Your complaints about this will not likely speed anything up and the negative effect on future development of other games is ASTOUNDING!

We should all be praising Marshall for having made the hard decision, not deriding him for such activity.

I will be starting a new topic titled Petition of Recognition.  Please read the first post before posting in it.


[Spelling error corrected]

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

[:@]  I have had all I can stand [:@]

Thanks for single-handedly taking this simply silly thread and making it completely bizarre.

[YohanTM2]

ORIGINAL: SamuraiProgrammer

[:@]  I have had all I can stand [:@]

Wow, what a totally biased programmers thread.

Don't get me wrong, I am very happy that the TMR was introduced and that changes are being made. I also don't need it to be a port of EiA, just a great game.

On the other hand, I have 3 close firends that were ALL lined up to buy this game. 1 is out for sure and the other 2 will wait it out after release to see what is up.

You comment that he took the correct course. Perhaps for a lesson in the "correct course" you should pop over to the WiF site and read up on how a programmer who is interested in getting people involved works; just a tad of difference.

I am sure I have not convinced you but suggesting by your emoticons we should bow at his feet for how this game has been handled is a touch off base.