Burma is self sufficient and unless you commit major naval assets, will be a ground/air dominated operation. Andaman Island may be looked at by long range recon and/or by some small BB TF's to probe the defense (find out how much he has there).
Your weaknesses are is the SW and SP in terms of what you can do. Do you still have Thursday Island?? If so, build it up to act as a place to start attrition of PM. Here it seems any invasion (NG or Solomons is outside your LBA range except heavy bombers). Continue building Santa Cruz so it can help.
You need to continue from Gilberts up into the Marshalls as you can have support from LBA.
Thus, to me it looks like your priority will be:
1. Marshalls
2. Andaman Islands
Andy Mac ...... Revenge of the Allies
Moderators: wdolson, Don Bowen, mogami
RE: Operation Polo
Hmmm I am not conviced that the Marshalls are a good bet at the moment.
I will think about it a little more
I think my priorities will be building up Santa Cruz and Cooktown to give me options in both directions.
6th US Army arrives in 30 Days that HQ can co ordinate the actions of my two offensive Corps
I think I will begin to concentrate both of my available attack Corps at Suva from there I have options to load up in secret and attack in either direction I will examine all my current deployments and try to free up infantry to reinforce them I would like 3 Divisions of Infantry (at least 1 Marine Div in each) in each Corps
Andy
I will think about it a little more
I think my priorities will be building up Santa Cruz and Cooktown to give me options in both directions.
6th US Army arrives in 30 Days that HQ can co ordinate the actions of my two offensive Corps
I think I will begin to concentrate both of my available attack Corps at Suva from there I have options to load up in secret and attack in either direction I will examine all my current deployments and try to free up infantry to reinforce them I would like 3 Divisions of Infantry (at least 1 Marine Div in each) in each Corps
Andy
RE: Operation Polo
All quiet as I assemble my stike force
RE: Operation Polo
OK 2 US Corps are now assembling at Suva covered by the upgraded US PAcific Fleet.
I will do a general update theatre by theatre to provide some more info.
India
Secure Japanese have zero chance to make an impact here my strike force is assembling at Madras, Hyderabad and Bangalore. I have siezed Mytinia more to try and provoke a response than anyhting else.
Ceylon is not 100% but I think a raid is all Pauk would attempt.
My overcommitment of US Bombers in the ealry phases of the war has cost me those units in CENTPAC and SOPAC but it has secured India.
I have plenty of good air units in India to many for what I can really achieve.
Unless Pauk makes silly error a 43 offensive aimed at capturing Rangoon is possible but it will be a tough fight.
Australia
OK this is a pain North Aus is still in Japanese hands and there is little I can do about it but it does give me an opportunity.
My plan as indicated earlier is to make threatening noises and try and draw in as much of Pauks army and then bypass it. My long term objective is a two corps invasion of Malaya by 1st Australian Army after 12th Indian Army draws Pauks reserves towards the Rangoon line. (this is a very long term plan post Hellcats)
SWPAC
Immediate objective is to secure Port Moresby and develop cooktown.
Aus Coast, NZ and Tasmania are all garrisoned and ready
SOPAC
Fiji is my main hub and fleet base New Cal to Santa Cruz are being developed to get ready in case i decide to launch a solomons campaign.
CENTPAC
Gilberts are MINE !!! marshalls are a possibility but I am in no great rush to attack.
NORPAC
Annoying that Pauk has siezed them but again I may make it look like an attack is imminent to try and draw away reserves.
Convoys
My single biggest headache is setting up the logistics base for the 43 offensives and keeping the lines safe. (Got my first 3 CVE and 1 CVR so my carrier strength is rising. Essex is not far off which will give me 6 Fleet Carriers with the main US PAC Fleet.
(Saratoga is operating with the RN TF)
Andy
I will do a general update theatre by theatre to provide some more info.
India
Secure Japanese have zero chance to make an impact here my strike force is assembling at Madras, Hyderabad and Bangalore. I have siezed Mytinia more to try and provoke a response than anyhting else.
Ceylon is not 100% but I think a raid is all Pauk would attempt.
My overcommitment of US Bombers in the ealry phases of the war has cost me those units in CENTPAC and SOPAC but it has secured India.
I have plenty of good air units in India to many for what I can really achieve.
Unless Pauk makes silly error a 43 offensive aimed at capturing Rangoon is possible but it will be a tough fight.
Australia
OK this is a pain North Aus is still in Japanese hands and there is little I can do about it but it does give me an opportunity.
My plan as indicated earlier is to make threatening noises and try and draw in as much of Pauks army and then bypass it. My long term objective is a two corps invasion of Malaya by 1st Australian Army after 12th Indian Army draws Pauks reserves towards the Rangoon line. (this is a very long term plan post Hellcats)
SWPAC
Immediate objective is to secure Port Moresby and develop cooktown.
Aus Coast, NZ and Tasmania are all garrisoned and ready
SOPAC
Fiji is my main hub and fleet base New Cal to Santa Cruz are being developed to get ready in case i decide to launch a solomons campaign.
CENTPAC
Gilberts are MINE !!! marshalls are a possibility but I am in no great rush to attack.
NORPAC
Annoying that Pauk has siezed them but again I may make it look like an attack is imminent to try and draw away reserves.
Convoys
My single biggest headache is setting up the logistics base for the 43 offensives and keeping the lines safe. (Got my first 3 CVE and 1 CVR so my carrier strength is rising. Essex is not far off which will give me 6 Fleet Carriers with the main US PAC Fleet.
(Saratoga is operating with the RN TF)
Andy
-
ny59giants
- Posts: 9902
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm
RE: Operation Polo
What heavy bombers did you send to India?? I usually send the 7th BG from the west coast (48 planes) and the other 48 plane group originally from PI.
I sometimes send 1 or 2 of the Canadien patrol squadrons (after upgraded to PBY) before the air bridge to India is cut. The British/India have poor patrol for some time and they have longer range than Catalina I's. Also the P-26/35 (these upgrade to P-39's and then P-38's [:D]) and the large P-40E via China from Clark (these do well against the Zeros even with the bonus).
Have to make taking India either very costly or not worth the trouble. Getting 2 out of 3 of the ISF out along with a handful of the Brigades from Malaya is worth it (use Dutch air transport to get them to Palemburg or single ship AK's). Some may not like a "Sir Robin" approach, but some units have to be saved while other die slowing down the Jap Blitzkrieg. [&o][&o]
I sometimes send 1 or 2 of the Canadien patrol squadrons (after upgraded to PBY) before the air bridge to India is cut. The British/India have poor patrol for some time and they have longer range than Catalina I's. Also the P-26/35 (these upgrade to P-39's and then P-38's [:D]) and the large P-40E via China from Clark (these do well against the Zeros even with the bonus).
Have to make taking India either very costly or not worth the trouble. Getting 2 out of 3 of the ISF out along with a handful of the Brigades from Malaya is worth it (use Dutch air transport to get them to Palemburg or single ship AK's). Some may not like a "Sir Robin" approach, but some units have to be saved while other die slowing down the Jap Blitzkrieg. [&o][&o]
[center]
[/center]
[/center]RE: Operation Polo
From memory I have 5th 7th 15th 39th BG's all stuck in India plus 4 independent Sqns and I had one more that I transferred to Australia at the last minute.
I was convinced Pauk was going for India so I concentrated pretty much the full available USAAF there and then he went and hit Australia ....doh !!!!
I was convinced Pauk was going for India so I concentrated pretty much the full available USAAF there and then he went and hit Australia ....doh !!!!
-
ny59giants
- Posts: 9902
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm
RE: Operation Polo
Lose Northern Australia and Perth vs. losing ALL of India. [&:]
You came out ahead and later you may break down a few of the BG and place them on AK's for a run down the map edge to Australia.
You came out ahead and later you may break down a few of the BG and place them on AK's for a run down the map edge to Australia.
[center][/center]
[/center]-
Arstavidios
- Posts: 782
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:02 pm
RE: Operation Polo
IMO, the best you can do is to build up your strength. Build your forward bases. You should have plenty of seabees and base forces arriving on the west coast. If you attack too early you will break your teeth and you will lose one year.
Salomons is a good place to start crawling forward without risking your navy. There should be some unoccupied bases where you can base some aircraft. a few months of air war should put some serious strain on his air force before you lauch your invasions.
Salomons is a good place to start crawling forward without risking your navy. There should be some unoccupied bases where you can base some aircraft. a few months of air war should put some serious strain on his air force before you lauch your invasions.
RE: Operation Polo
Yup Cooktown is developing and I am shifting forward Seabees
Pulled off a nice little ambush on Pauk this turn he got cosky at Chungking and the AF was open so I sent is some fighters.
I would really like to retain Air Superiority over Chungking at least to stop his pilot training.
My no 1 priority is to try and help keep his pilot training under control.
To re open the AF I flew in some Indian Construction Bns and turned my entire bomber force to lugging supplies.
End result 35 toasted Jap Bobers !!!!
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/24/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 2nd Group Army, at 46,34
Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 7
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 54
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 32
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
54 casualties reported
Aircraft Attacking:
30 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
32 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
12 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
12 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
7 x B5N Kate bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 2nd Group Army, at 46,34
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24
D3A Val x 9
B5N Kate x 8
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 34
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
63 casualties reported
Aircraft Attacking:
34 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
24 x A6M2 Zero bombing at 2000 feet
9 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
8 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 26
Ki-49 Helen x 39
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 23
P-38G Lightning x 42
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 13 destroyed
Ki-49 Helen: 19 destroyed, 1 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 10 damaged
P-38G Lightning: 1 destroyed, 16 damaged
Allied ground losses:
45 casualties reported
Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 22
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 11000 feet
2 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 11000 feet
3 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 11000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Iloilo , at 42,56
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36
B5N Kate x 23
Ki-49 Helen x 6
No Japanese losses
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 25
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 108th USAAF Base Force, at 42,56
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 23
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 32
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 25th Chinese Corps, at 39,35
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 20
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on No. 101 RN Base Force, at 19,57
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 89
D3A Val x 18
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 48
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 12
Ki-49 Helen x 9
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on No. 101 RAAF Base Force, at 60,89
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
B5N Kate x 10
G3M Nell x 30
G4M1 Betty x 27
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 32
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Yunan , at 38,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 28
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1
No Japanese losses
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 40,35
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 41923 troops, 585 guns, 7 vehicles, Assault Value = 1759
Defending force 115964 troops, 116 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2873
Allied ground losses:
27 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 33,29
Japanese Shock attack
Attacking force 2407 troops, 0 guns, 159 vehicles, Assault Value = 96
Defending force 362 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 17
Japanese max assault: 188 - adjusted assault: 344
Allied max defense: 16 - adjusted defense: 17
Japanese assault odds: 20 to 1
Japanese ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 2
Allied ground losses:
78 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Defeated Allied Units Retreating!
Pulled off a nice little ambush on Pauk this turn he got cosky at Chungking and the AF was open so I sent is some fighters.
I would really like to retain Air Superiority over Chungking at least to stop his pilot training.
My no 1 priority is to try and help keep his pilot training under control.
To re open the AF I flew in some Indian Construction Bns and turned my entire bomber force to lugging supplies.
End result 35 toasted Jap Bobers !!!!
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/24/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 2nd Group Army, at 46,34
Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 7
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 54
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 32
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
54 casualties reported
Aircraft Attacking:
30 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
32 x Ki-61 KAIc Tony bombing at 2000 feet
12 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
12 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
7 x B5N Kate bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 2nd Group Army, at 46,34
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24
D3A Val x 9
B5N Kate x 8
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 34
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
63 casualties reported
Aircraft Attacking:
34 x Ki-43-Ib Oscar bombing at 2000 feet
24 x A6M2 Zero bombing at 2000 feet
9 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
8 x B5N Kate bombing at 1000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 26
Ki-49 Helen x 39
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 23
P-38G Lightning x 42
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 13 destroyed
Ki-49 Helen: 19 destroyed, 1 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 10 damaged
P-38G Lightning: 1 destroyed, 16 damaged
Allied ground losses:
45 casualties reported
Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 22
Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 11000 feet
2 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 11000 feet
3 x Ki-49 Helen bombing at 11000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Iloilo , at 42,56
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36
B5N Kate x 23
Ki-49 Helen x 6
No Japanese losses
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 25
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 108th USAAF Base Force, at 42,56
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 23
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 32
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 25th Chinese Corps, at 39,35
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 20
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on No. 101 RN Base Force, at 19,57
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 89
D3A Val x 18
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 48
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 12
Ki-49 Helen x 9
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on No. 101 RAAF Base Force, at 60,89
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
B5N Kate x 10
G3M Nell x 30
G4M1 Betty x 27
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 32
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Yunan , at 38,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 28
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1
No Japanese losses
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 40,35
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 41923 troops, 585 guns, 7 vehicles, Assault Value = 1759
Defending force 115964 troops, 116 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2873
Allied ground losses:
27 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 33,29
Japanese Shock attack
Attacking force 2407 troops, 0 guns, 159 vehicles, Assault Value = 96
Defending force 362 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 17
Japanese max assault: 188 - adjusted assault: 344
Allied max defense: 16 - adjusted defense: 17
Japanese assault odds: 20 to 1
Japanese ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 2
Allied ground losses:
78 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Defeated Allied Units Retreating!
RE: Operation Polo
Pauk raids at night but has not launched an all out attack to cripple the AF.
This is weird My Spits are now there as well and the AF is almost fully repaired plus my pilots fatigue is recovered he should have hit me the turn after I arrived when the AF was still vulnerable.
I may try a sweep in a couple of days backed by RAF and CAF mediums if he stays this quiet.
I mean to close these pilot training schools if I can
This is weird My Spits are now there as well and the AF is almost fully repaired plus my pilots fatigue is recovered he should have hit me the turn after I arrived when the AF was still vulnerable.
I may try a sweep in a couple of days backed by RAF and CAF mediums if he stays this quiet.
I mean to close these pilot training schools if I can
Air Battle of Chungking
OK day 1 of the air battle and I lose 2 in the air of rested pilots at 22,000 feet and I lose 2 for 1 all my pilots are 60+ and the tomahawk gp is 75+
I lose 60 he loses 30+
Not a disaster but thats a lot of enemy airframes and with the best will n the world my pools are tight
Pauk makes a comment that I am finally willing to come out and fight I am frankly slightly irritated by this.
I have attacked at Perth and Tarawa in Burma and at Narau and he doesnt react but this is finally classed as an attack.
I think he expects me to attack with insufficient resources and pools that cannot sustain a long fight well I hate to say it but he may be right I cannot stop 200+ Tonies and Tojos with my pools so weak of all fighter types.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/27/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 14
Allied aircraft
Beaufighter VIF x 6
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49 Helen: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter VIF: 4 damaged
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 108
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 36
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 11
Spitfire Vb x 8
P-40B Tomahawk x 20
P-40E Warhawk x 35
P-38G Lightning x 13
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 31 destroyed, 8 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 4 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 11 destroyed
Spitfire Vb: 8 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 19 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 12 destroyed, 6 damaged
P-38G Lightning: 12 destroyed
I lose 60 he loses 30+
Not a disaster but thats a lot of enemy airframes and with the best will n the world my pools are tight
Pauk makes a comment that I am finally willing to come out and fight I am frankly slightly irritated by this.
I have attacked at Perth and Tarawa in Burma and at Narau and he doesnt react but this is finally classed as an attack.
I think he expects me to attack with insufficient resources and pools that cannot sustain a long fight well I hate to say it but he may be right I cannot stop 200+ Tonies and Tojos with my pools so weak of all fighter types.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/27/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-49 Helen x 14
Allied aircraft
Beaufighter VIF x 6
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49 Helen: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter VIF: 4 damaged
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 108
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 36
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 11
Spitfire Vb x 8
P-40B Tomahawk x 20
P-40E Warhawk x 35
P-38G Lightning x 13
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 31 destroyed, 8 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 4 destroyed
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 11 destroyed
Spitfire Vb: 8 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 19 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 12 destroyed, 6 damaged
P-38G Lightning: 12 destroyed
RE: Air Battle of Chungking
Day 2
OK I had 200 of my best fighters in this fight and today I lost another 60 in the air and 40 on the ground.
IJA lost about 60.
My pools are empty P40E's and B's have no replacements, Spits have about 20 left but cannot take on replacements in Chungking
P38 Pool is empty only the F4F's have sufficinet replacements
The battle is over I am pulling out so far I have shot down slightly more than 1:1 when you inculde the bombers of earlier days and overall I have lost 1:1 so I have to be happy.
Against 200+ Tonies and Tojos I cannot stand and fight as the bombers will always get through so I am pulling out tonight.
About 50 fighters will be destroyed on the ground but so be it.
I have learned a lesson in this battle and that is that I need to use fighters with more depth in their pools.
Accordingly 2 Marine Wildcat Sqns are moving towards Aus where they will be transferred to India. In 30 days those Sqns become F4U's at this point I will try again to regain air superiority over Chungking
p.s. payback will be a wonderfull thing when my B24's and 17's return the favour
Andy
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/28/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Ichang , at 47,33
Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 6
Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 1 damaged
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 133
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 99
Ki-21 Sally x 54
Ki-49 Helen x 25
Ki-46-II Dinah x 5
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4
Spitfire Vb x 8
P-40B Tomahawk x 15
P-40E Warhawk x 39
P-38G Lightning x 11
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 27 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 3 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 5 destroyed
Spitfire Vb: 9 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 17 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 22 destroyed
P-38G Lightning: 11 destroyed
Wellington III: 2 destroyed
Beaufighter VIF: 1 destroyed
Allied ground losses:
259 casualties reported
Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 43
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 45
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 66
Ki-21 Sally x 27
Ki-49 Helen x 37
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3
Spitfire Vb x 5
P-40B Tomahawk x 6
P-40E Warhawk x 21
P-38G Lightning x 9
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 7 destroyed, 3 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 19 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 4 destroyed
Spitfire Vb: 5 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 7 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 9 destroyed, 3 damaged
P-38G Lightning: 5 destroyed
Wellington III: 1 destroyed
Allied ground losses:
103 casualties reported
Airbase hits 5
Runway hits 21
Aircraft Attacking:
OK I had 200 of my best fighters in this fight and today I lost another 60 in the air and 40 on the ground.
IJA lost about 60.
My pools are empty P40E's and B's have no replacements, Spits have about 20 left but cannot take on replacements in Chungking
P38 Pool is empty only the F4F's have sufficinet replacements
The battle is over I am pulling out so far I have shot down slightly more than 1:1 when you inculde the bombers of earlier days and overall I have lost 1:1 so I have to be happy.
Against 200+ Tonies and Tojos I cannot stand and fight as the bombers will always get through so I am pulling out tonight.
About 50 fighters will be destroyed on the ground but so be it.
I have learned a lesson in this battle and that is that I need to use fighters with more depth in their pools.
Accordingly 2 Marine Wildcat Sqns are moving towards Aus where they will be transferred to India. In 30 days those Sqns become F4U's at this point I will try again to regain air superiority over Chungking
p.s. payback will be a wonderfull thing when my B24's and 17's return the favour
Andy
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/28/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Ichang , at 47,33
Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 6
Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 1 damaged
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 133
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 99
Ki-21 Sally x 54
Ki-49 Helen x 25
Ki-46-II Dinah x 5
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 4
Spitfire Vb x 8
P-40B Tomahawk x 15
P-40E Warhawk x 39
P-38G Lightning x 11
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 27 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 3 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 5 destroyed
Spitfire Vb: 9 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 17 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 22 destroyed
P-38G Lightning: 11 destroyed
Wellington III: 2 destroyed
Beaufighter VIF: 1 destroyed
Allied ground losses:
259 casualties reported
Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 43
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 45
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 66
Ki-21 Sally x 27
Ki-49 Helen x 37
Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 3
Spitfire Vb x 5
P-40B Tomahawk x 6
P-40E Warhawk x 21
P-38G Lightning x 9
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIb Tojo: 7 destroyed, 3 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 19 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 4 destroyed
Spitfire Vb: 5 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 7 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 9 destroyed, 3 damaged
P-38G Lightning: 5 destroyed
Wellington III: 1 destroyed
Allied ground losses:
103 casualties reported
Airbase hits 5
Runway hits 21
Aircraft Attacking:
RE: Air Battle of Chungking
Day 3 its all over 40+ destreoyed on the ground
Pauk claims to see AAR's where the allies successfully go on the offensive in late 42 without unacceptable losses my riposte would be allies can only attack in 1 of 2 circumstances.
1. Operational Surprise is achieved and 4 - 5 days before IJN can intervene
2. In LBA range i.e. LRCAP range of P38's and extended range of wildcats so say range 5 form allied bases.
Anything that depends on Carrier borne Wildcats stopping zeroes is a a joke and a risk not worth taking as the allies.
Am I being too cautious every time I tried to fight toe to toe in 42 I have lost so I may be scarred by previous losses
[:D][:D][:D]
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/29/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 45
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 36
Ki-21 Sally x 26
Ki-49 Helen x 60
Allied aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49 Helen: 1 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 4 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 5 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 5 destroyed
Wellington III: 2 destroyed
Allied ground losses:
170 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Airbase hits 11
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 83
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 12
Ki-21 Sally x 83
Allied aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 4 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed
P-38G Lightning: 4 destroyed
Wellington III: 1 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 1 destroyed
Allied ground losses:
102 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 101
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Iloilo , at 42,56
Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 13
Ki-49 Helen x 9
No Japanese losses
Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 11
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 108th USAAF Base Force, at 42,56
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 67
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 32
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on No. 101 RN Base Force, at 19,57
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 96
D3A Val x 17
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 48
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 12
Ki-49 Helen x 9
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 30th Chinese/B Corps, at 46,29
Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 34
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on No. 101 RAAF Base Force, at 60,89
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
B5N Kate x 12
G3M Nell x 42
G4M1 Betty x 27
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 35
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 75
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 60
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1
No Japanese losses
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 40,35
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 42022 troops, 588 guns, 7 vehicles, Assault Value = 2241
Defending force 115296 troops, 107 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2868
Allied ground losses:
56 casualties reported
Pauk claims to see AAR's where the allies successfully go on the offensive in late 42 without unacceptable losses my riposte would be allies can only attack in 1 of 2 circumstances.
1. Operational Surprise is achieved and 4 - 5 days before IJN can intervene
2. In LBA range i.e. LRCAP range of P38's and extended range of wildcats so say range 5 form allied bases.
Anything that depends on Carrier borne Wildcats stopping zeroes is a a joke and a risk not worth taking as the allies.
Am I being too cautious every time I tried to fight toe to toe in 42 I have lost so I may be scarred by previous losses
[:D][:D][:D]
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/29/42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 45
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 36
Ki-21 Sally x 26
Ki-49 Helen x 60
Allied aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49 Helen: 1 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 4 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 5 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 5 destroyed
Wellington III: 2 destroyed
Allied ground losses:
170 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Airbase hits 11
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 83
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 12
Ki-21 Sally x 83
Allied aircraft
no flights
Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 4 damaged
Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed
P-38G Lightning: 4 destroyed
Wellington III: 1 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 1 destroyed
Allied ground losses:
102 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 101
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Iloilo , at 42,56
Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 13
Ki-49 Helen x 9
No Japanese losses
Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 11
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 108th USAAF Base Force, at 42,56
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 67
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 32
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on No. 101 RN Base Force, at 19,57
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 96
D3A Val x 17
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 48
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 12
Ki-49 Helen x 9
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 30th Chinese/B Corps, at 46,29
Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 34
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on No. 101 RAAF Base Force, at 60,89
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
B5N Kate x 12
G3M Nell x 42
G4M1 Betty x 27
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 35
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chungking , at 43,32
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 75
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 60
Ki-46-II Dinah x 1
No Japanese losses
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 40,35
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 42022 troops, 588 guns, 7 vehicles, Assault Value = 2241
Defending force 115296 troops, 107 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2868
Allied ground losses:
56 casualties reported
RE: Air Battle of Chungking
Forces are gathering I am more and more coming to the view that my next target should be Port Moresby
1st US Corps is assembling at New Cal
2nd USMC Div
40th US Div
9th US Corps at Suva
43rd US Div
32nd US Div
Amercal Div
Reinforcements en Route
37th US Div from Tarawa to 1st Corps
24th US div from Tarawa to 1st Corps
1st USMC Div from Baker Island to 9th Corps
Other US Divs in theatre
25th US Div - Pearl
27th US Div - Alice Springs
7th US Div - West Coast
41st US Div - West Coast
1st US Corps is assembling at New Cal
2nd USMC Div
40th US Div
9th US Corps at Suva
43rd US Div
32nd US Div
Amercal Div
Reinforcements en Route
37th US Div from Tarawa to 1st Corps
24th US div from Tarawa to 1st Corps
1st USMC Div from Baker Island to 9th Corps
Other US Divs in theatre
25th US Div - Pearl
27th US Div - Alice Springs
7th US Div - West Coast
41st US Div - West Coast
RE: Air Battle of Chungking
I am also assembling 1st Australian Corps at Townsville its dual role is protection of the East Coast and prepping for PM
6th Aus Div
7th Aus Div
9th Aus Div
27th US Div
As you all know from my game versus PZB I like having prepped troops with minimum 2 full Inf Divs and armour for each invasion.
All three of my offensive Corps that are starting to assemble will have 4 Divisions of Infantry but will be short of armour so I will need to be carefull.
Options are Gili Gili, Port Moresby, Solomons or an early attack on the Marshalls all three are being considered I will have plenty of ground forces its getting them to the target safely thats the problem
Andy
6th Aus Div
7th Aus Div
9th Aus Div
27th US Div
As you all know from my game versus PZB I like having prepped troops with minimum 2 full Inf Divs and armour for each invasion.
All three of my offensive Corps that are starting to assemble will have 4 Divisions of Infantry but will be short of armour so I will need to be carefull.
Options are Gili Gili, Port Moresby, Solomons or an early attack on the Marshalls all three are being considered I will have plenty of ground forces its getting them to the target safely thats the problem
Andy
RE: Air Battle of Chungking
Quiet turn again
RE: Air Battle of Chungking
The 2 Sqns of Wildcats have arrived at Perth I am loading them onto Saratoga who will deliver them with Illustrious for escort to India (they will be F4U's in 30 days !!!)
I will take the opportunity to put Saratogas group back on board as they have been orphaned in India since the early days Saratoga and Illustrious will then operate as part of Eastern Fleet supporting Valient at Colombo.
Formidable, Indomitable and Hermes are still at Perth the Battleline is moving back towards the fleet base at Adeilade ready to support my invasion of PM (7BB's 1BC)
As soon as Perth generates some more fuel I will return the carriers to Adeilade as well.
My Ground Units are assembling I think I will use the Suva based Corps for the invasion as I want to retain the New Cal Corps until I am certain I know what Paul is upto
The plan is to hit Gili Gili with 1 Australian Division from 1st Aus Corps then land a full US 4 Divison Crops onto PM
Andy
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/09/43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 9th Group Army, at 39,35
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported
Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kunming , at 39,33
Japanese aircraft
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 18
Ki-21 Sally x 26
Ki-49 Helen x 56
Ki-46-II Dinah x 7
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
28 casualties reported
Airbase hits 6
Runway hits 60
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chengtu , at 41,29
Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 35
Ki-21 Sally x 29
Ki-46-II Dinah x 4
No Japanese losses
Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 18
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Iloilo , at 42,56
Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 16
No Japanese losses
Runway hits 2
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Yokosuka 1st SNLF, at 37,30
Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 9
P-40E Warhawk x 12
B-25C Mitchell x 46
B-17E Fortress x 44
LB-30 Liberator x 37
B-24D Liberator x 49
IL-4c x 11
No Allied losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 6th Chinese Cavalry Corps, at 46,34
Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 86
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on No. 101 RN Base Force, at 19,57
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 91
D3A Val x 8
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 48
Ki-49 Helen x 9
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 30th Chinese/B Corps, at 46,29
Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 36
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on No. 101 RAAF Base Force, at 60,89
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 78
B5N Kate x 8
G3M Nell x 24
G4M1 Betty x 46
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 40,35
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 25849 troops, 380 guns, 7 vehicles, Assault Value = 2238
Defending force 113384 troops, 90 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2848
Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 46,34
Allied Shock attack
Attacking force 1196 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 47
Defending force 5389 troops, 70 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 111
Allied max assault: 20 - adjusted assault: 0
Japanese max defense: 115 - adjusted defense: 255
Allied assault odds: 0 to 1
Allied ground losses:
428 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 37,30
Allied Shock attack
Attacking force 928 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 24
Defending force 724 troops, 7 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0
Allied max assault: 28 - adjusted assault: 7
Japanese max defense: 13 - adjusted defense: 11
Allied assault odds: 0 to 1
I will take the opportunity to put Saratogas group back on board as they have been orphaned in India since the early days Saratoga and Illustrious will then operate as part of Eastern Fleet supporting Valient at Colombo.
Formidable, Indomitable and Hermes are still at Perth the Battleline is moving back towards the fleet base at Adeilade ready to support my invasion of PM (7BB's 1BC)
As soon as Perth generates some more fuel I will return the carriers to Adeilade as well.
My Ground Units are assembling I think I will use the Suva based Corps for the invasion as I want to retain the New Cal Corps until I am certain I know what Paul is upto
The plan is to hit Gili Gili with 1 Australian Division from 1st Aus Corps then land a full US 4 Divison Crops onto PM
Andy
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 01/09/43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 9th Group Army, at 39,35
Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported
Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-44-IIb Tojo bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kunming , at 39,33
Japanese aircraft
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 18
Ki-21 Sally x 26
Ki-49 Helen x 56
Ki-46-II Dinah x 7
No Japanese losses
Allied ground losses:
28 casualties reported
Airbase hits 6
Runway hits 60
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Chengtu , at 41,29
Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 35
Ki-21 Sally x 29
Ki-46-II Dinah x 4
No Japanese losses
Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 18
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Iloilo , at 42,56
Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 16
No Japanese losses
Runway hits 2
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Yokosuka 1st SNLF, at 37,30
Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 9
P-40E Warhawk x 12
B-25C Mitchell x 46
B-17E Fortress x 44
LB-30 Liberator x 37
B-24D Liberator x 49
IL-4c x 11
No Allied losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 6th Chinese Cavalry Corps, at 46,34
Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 86
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on No. 101 RN Base Force, at 19,57
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 91
D3A Val x 8
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 48
Ki-49 Helen x 9
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 30th Chinese/B Corps, at 46,29
Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 36
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on No. 101 RAAF Base Force, at 60,89
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 78
B5N Kate x 8
G3M Nell x 24
G4M1 Betty x 46
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 36
No Japanese losses
Aircraft Attacking:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 40,35
Japanese Bombardment attack
Attacking force 25849 troops, 380 guns, 7 vehicles, Assault Value = 2238
Defending force 113384 troops, 90 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2848
Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 46,34
Allied Shock attack
Attacking force 1196 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 47
Defending force 5389 troops, 70 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 111
Allied max assault: 20 - adjusted assault: 0
Japanese max defense: 115 - adjusted defense: 255
Allied assault odds: 0 to 1
Allied ground losses:
428 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 37,30
Allied Shock attack
Attacking force 928 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 24
Defending force 724 troops, 7 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0
Allied max assault: 28 - adjusted assault: 7
Japanese max defense: 13 - adjusted defense: 11
Allied assault odds: 0 to 1
RE: Air Battle of Chungking
Last few turns have been quiet we are in the slow phase of the game before the allies are really ready to attack.
3rd US Corps and 9th US Corps are asembling at New Cal and Fiji and there is almost enough fuel at Perth for the remaining RN Carriers to withdraw to Adeilade. I have felt very exposed at Perth waiting for the fuel to build up enough to send my ships to safer ports.
MY 2 Sqns of Marine F4F's are on their way to India ready to convert to F4U's in time for the next little attempt to win air superiority over Chungking.
I am resting my best pilots and waiting and watching for my opportunity
If Pauk gives me half a chance he will have a hell of a fight in the Air over China !!!!
3rd US Corps and 9th US Corps are asembling at New Cal and Fiji and there is almost enough fuel at Perth for the remaining RN Carriers to withdraw to Adeilade. I have felt very exposed at Perth waiting for the fuel to build up enough to send my ships to safer ports.
MY 2 Sqns of Marine F4F's are on their way to India ready to convert to F4U's in time for the next little attempt to win air superiority over Chungking.
I am resting my best pilots and waiting and watching for my opportunity
If Pauk gives me half a chance he will have a hell of a fight in the Air over China !!!!
RE: Air Battle of Chungking
p.s. of course both F4F Sqns will be transferred to SEAC before seeing combat in China/Burma
RE: Air Battle of Chungking
Well at least you still hold most of Burma and China........1943 is the best time for the allied player as you start to draw blood from the Japs.....and it gets better and better as the year rolls on. I just got my first P-47s and the RN Fleet Air Arm are about to convert to Corsairs.[8D] Hellcats in another few months even better ![&o]
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.