AAR & Feedback: HTTR Air Landing Assault on COTA

[Conflux]

MarkShot
I'm really sorry if my post came accross the wrong way, it certainly wasn't intended. You are quite right about the need for the amount of high quality inspection and feedback needed, and I certainly didn't mean that you were insulting laska2ka

Kind regards
Martin

[Arjuna]

OK guys you've digitally kissed and made up. That's good. [:)]
 
Now what I want to know are there any resupply messages - ie X unit received resupply or resupply column suffered X% losses etc.

[MarkShot]

Well, resupply in my game that I started this thread for was dead anyway, since I had no base.

[MarkShot]

Some more observations about playing RDOA in 2006:

(1) It is the little things you miss. I spent two hours bombarding a road used to bring in enemy reinforcements but with no shells landing. At first, I thought it was "friendlies in the way", since RDOA gives no warning. However, it also turns out in RDOA that you can set bombard missions beyond the range of your guns.

(2) In RDOA, there are no clues about order delays (unit and force delays). However, now after HTTR and COTA the rough estimates are pretty much in grained and I know what to expect. But now I know why this originally seemed so hard in RDOA, because you didn't have as much as a hint what things would take.

I am having a great game. I have to see if I have time to write an RDOA AAR this weekend. Maybe publish it on the wargamer.com and when RDOA's price on Ebay reaches $300 USD, sell it. Did I mention that I have the original manual in good condition too?

[MarkShot]

Another observation. Night came one hour earlier in RDOA at 21:00. In the COTA remake of this scenario it came at 22:00.

[MarkShot]

There's no gamma change for night either in RDOA. I think I have gotten used to that, but I remember when I first saw it that I didn't like it.

[MarkShot]

Well, I have to put this game down for tonight. I cannot believe how much fun I am having. I now realize that it was only moving forward on the development of HTTR that caused me to stop playing RDOA. And correspondingly COTA development causing me to put HTTR down. One screenie of where I am at the moment.

[Conflux]

Hi

Can confirm that resup messages are there... "transport column from Gds Bde Base to Arty Bty suffered 6% losses" followed by msge "Arty Bty's supplies have arrived" - and they did (these are the names I gave to the units). I would post a sreen shot only I haven't figured that out yet! It's a very simple scenario so it wouldn't take you long to replicate

rgds

[MarkShot]

He ... he ... I just come across another RDOA nit that was later fixed. The faster you play the game, the louder it gets!

[MarkShot]

Won't have time to write up on an AAR for this RDOA play through. It was a good game. So, just some final screens. Now, off to play it under HTTR.

I barely pulled off a decisive victory. Firmly taking the Rail Bridge; giving the Germans a good fight in Arnhem; and causing just enough casualities to make it very costly for the Germans.

[MarkShot]

Final positions around the Rail Bridge ...

[MarkShot]

Final positions around the Road Bridge ...

[MarkShot]

More observations ... HTTR attacks seem to structure into better formations than RDOA attacks. In both games, FUPing seems to be a faster process than COTA.

[Banquet]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
I have to see if I have time to write an RDOA AAR this weekend. Maybe publish it on the wargamer.com and when RDOA's price on Ebay reaches $300 USD, sell it. Did I mention that I have the original manual in good condition too?

Markshot, really! I am seeing a different side to you tonight! [:D]

See, this is the problem with being a beta tester - you are now ready for the next in the series, while the rest of us are just getting in the groove [:)]

[MarkShot]

Well, I was only joking. I will never part with my copy of RDOA.

However, I am now playing HTTR and having a great time again. I must say that the UI improvements in HTTR like the friendly unit filters (did I mention that that was one of my ideas), FS tab, and order delay info makes working with the game much easier.

You know people have been asking who have bought COTA or are going to buy it they should they get HTTR. I was personally leaning towards that there is no need to rush out and get HTTR if you already own COTA. However, I have now firmly changed my mind on that. HTTR is simply great fun. Yes, the COTA features are really big improvements, but lack of them in no way invalidates the quality of the game play in HTTR. You can get HTTR for I think $20 these days new. Also, I don't really see any problem switching back and forth between the games. There are some differences, but there is nothing you cannot get used to (like I haven't touched RDOA/HTTR for about two years, but I am already up and running again); although I do think the transition from COTA to HTTR is probably easier than the other way around.

I do think the porting of the HTTR scenarios to COTA is going to be a long and arduous process if it ever fully happens. So, for somone who is enjoying COTA and wants more, more, more ... I would say don't wait for conversions, just buy HTTR.

In fact, I think next week, I am going to make sure that I collect all the third party scenarios done for HTTR. I do not want to miss a single second of this game ... I didn't know what the true price of beta testing was until tonight!

[MarkShot]

Look at this, C Coy who has been tasked with setting up the East Roadblock of Arnhem despite having to fight their way out of the drop area and forced marching has just arrived in time. They just caught a German column of reinforcements moving downtown to bolster the Road Bridge defense. Although they missed their chance to block the Germans, they are laying down harassing fire and calling in arty. What excitement!

* I am using the RDOA Classic Look textures; my personal favorite.

[Banquet]

Your enthusiasm is contagious! Looking at that almost had me loading CotA back up, despite it being gone 2am and I already played a scenerio tonight (my first decisive victory - not that I'm showing off! [:D])

[laska2k8]

Mgfoster

MarkShot
Are we talking at cross purpose here? With the greatest respect (you did get me to buy HTTR &COTA thanks to your AARs) aren't you being a bit harsh on laska2k4? He sid say that you have to completely redo the scenarios from HTTR so don't blame him for not replicating everything exactly, as he said.

MarkShot

3rd line; 1st post of this thread

I really do appreciated what Laska2k4 has done.

MarkShot

Since yesterday, I have been playing RDOA (Red Devils Over Arnhem) - Panther's first game released with this engine by Battlefront in 2001. I have to say, what a great game! I mean I am having a lot of fun and the action is really intense.

I wish to thank Mgfoster, yes, maybe MarkShot was a bit harsh with me, but not so much to be worried about.
MarkShot you were right too, my job was incomplete (though I said this along the posts) and probably unplayable.
But if you take care of details and precision I can't ply a game where tanks go through woods, wargame rules are quite rigid. The same law push me to write a post in the TOWIII forum asking why armored units cross mountains, slowly, but they can.
The answer was...

The assumption is that if a hex doesn't contain badlands then there are probably some dirt tracks which, whilst far from ideal, do permit the movement even of heavy vehicles.

So what are the leading points ?
HttR with his unreal tanks is quite unplayable, in the same manner Cota whith the imported map (Air Landing..).

Try to play the "Road to Rimini 1944" scenario in TOWIII and see allies going through rocky mountains
with tanks...


So it can be only matter of fun and imagination, believe it or not...

[MarkShot]

Max,

Well, I apologize if I seemed critical of your work. You got the ball rolling when the official line was that it could not be done. That was critical.

I have to say that I have recently found new respect for scenario designers in general. I spent a few hours yesterday stepping through the COTA SM Manual alongside running SM. SM is clearly very powerful, but I think maybe too complex for your weekend scenario developer like me. It would be nice if it had two modes: a basic mode and an expert mode ...

Regarding COTA versus HTTR. No doubt about COTA being a better engine than HTTR. However, in my mind, HTTR still has much merit (and not just from a game play point of view). 80% of my play style that I employ when playing COTA was derived from experience with RDOA and HTTR. Those two previous engines captured many military concepts and issues despite not being at the same level COTA is.

If you asked Bil Hardenberger, CRO (PG's Chief Realism Officer), to take a critical look at COTA, he can easily rattle off some major areas for improvement. In fact, I could too just from being around and hearing it all discussed. Despite that, PG has both defined the state of the art and raised the bar with this release. One day COTA will be as RDOA is now ... an engine with much to convey and teach, but surpassed by later offerings.

And you'll probably find me playing COTA, since with the next game going into production, I will have some time to step back from testing of builds.

[PaulWRoberts]

I'm planning on trying my hand at updating some HTTR scenarios into COTA as soon as I have time (later this month). Could someone outline the procedure as it is known so far, so that I won't make any (or as many)stupid mistakes?

As I understand it, HTTR maps can be loaded into COTA's editor. But do they need to be recompiled?

Likewise, what limitations do we already know about in using the HTTR estab in COTA?