Sneer vs Raver , Banzaiiii!!!!

[Sneer]

it is not a game we started playing
from current discussion in main thread I was informed /i feared/ that under current supply distribution system max AV of my troops before any other modifiers is 50% - it is huge change from 1.6 and it explains a lot why I have been staying at chungking for 6 months
I don't know what to say ....
I don't know what to do ....

[Sneer]

as far as war operations
today 150 enemy bombers razed HI at Jamshedpur - sign that air war in east india is in final stage as i loose ability to keep my bases secured from the air
4 bases - each needs 200+ fighters to be safe + 50% reserve
i don't even know if I have so many land based fighters

[Nemo121]

Sneer, check out my analysis thread. I think it sums up the situation quite accurately.
 
Even with enough supplies in China etc to push enough to Chungking to attack at DOUBLE STRENGTH for a full two months not enough arrives to let my troops attack at full strength EVER.
 
In effect you and I are being robbed of 3/4 of the combat strength the game model ( as initially designed) wants us to have because of the unexpected ramifications of poorly thought-out changes to the game mechanics... Honestly they should concentrate less on myriad tiny bug fixes and more on actually fixing the over-arching game MECHANICS which are what is messing up our games much more than small point-effect bugs. [8|]

[Sneer]

funny thing is that when i started this game under 1.6 there was no problem with supply distribution
i took both malaya and PI in record time...
...now they fixed it [8|] and nobody knows how it works + there is strong suspicion it doesn't work well
I'm tired of shouting laud that sb need to look at it
sb else must do it
there are only few things that needs developers attention

ubercap / stacking limits+ aviation support / land combat
rest is not important to me  - from my point of view they loose their time on fixing minor issues and due to low priority of project there is little hope it will be done ever

unless bugged land combat (i still have fresh chinase surrounded not surrending troops after whole year ) i could have finished china in 42  as Raverdave did some small mistakes I could use against him

At this moment i'm tired/furious and Raverdave is worried as game reached place when it is most interesting to allied player

Nemo - there is no way we can check supply flow and if troops have enough of it to fight and at what efficiency level they fight now
i still hope Matrix will look at it but it looks like it will take weeks or months as we are still at point where people must notice that problem exists - it is highly inconvinient to currently played PBEM - I know
looks like I need to have huge overkill at chungking

I had big plans for china army - with more than 6 months delay they are outdated - I was thinking about 40 inf division
 pacification of India - even so late in game - nothing like Karachi siege - but isolating few bases and killing enough troops to secure this front till late 45 when i want to use troops against russia and to force RN to come back to IO
i know i have enough supplies /manpower/armament.
just imagine Raverdave surprise seeing 10k AV elite troops marching for Madras and later to Delhi forcing him to leave Benares - all is gone - pity
it is joint AAR so no plans were posted earlier [:(] now it is too late so i can write about it

it is too late  - troops should be already on offensive and in early 44 i will be deeply dig in defence with every unit send to pacific

maybe some day they will check it
maybe in another game i will have another chance

[Nemo121]

Yes and don't forget that when, as the Japanese player, you quit out of disgust at a completely hosed system which robs you of much of your combat power ( which the Allied player has the masses of supply and reinforcement to simply completely outmass any defence to such an extent that the same relative reduction in combat power does not fatally inhibit their plans) then you are called a bad loser etc.

Gees, I was, in the past, of the opinion that Allied and Japanese fanboys were as bad as eachother but every time I post demonstrable, quantifiable statistically relevant issues with the game the same cohort of players ( all of them allied players) sweep in to belittle the points. Its like Fing mob rule where whatever favours the Allies is good and pure and whatever attempts to fix flaws in Japanese modelling is something too inconsequential to bother with. Hell Pasternakski actually said that the reduction in Japanese combat strength by 3/4 from what it should be achieving "isn't too bad". LOL!!! I'd like to see him say that when we suggest no Allied carrier fleet in 1944 and onwards should be allowed to set CAP to more than 20% ( a similar reduction in that force's combat power).

[Sneer]

i think we caused enough noise to have reaction from Matrix
let's sit and wait for official statement

Mogami wrote today that my campaign at chungking is ok and I'm winning what is visible in combat report so it is ok - no comment

steam preassure was high today and now I wait only for technical staff

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Yes and don't forget that when, as the Japanese player, you quit out of disgust at a completely hosed system which robs you of much of your combat power ( which the Allied player has the masses of supply and reinforcement to simply completely outmass any defence to such an extent that the same relative reduction in combat power does not fatally inhibit their plans) then you are called a bad loser etc.

Gees, I was, in the past, of the opinion that Allied and Japanese fanboys were as bad as eachother but every time I post demonstrable, quantifiable statistically relevant issues with the game the same cohort of players ( all of them allied players) sweep in to belittle the points. Its like Fing mob rule where whatever favours the Allies is good and pure and whatever attempts to fix flaws in Japanese modelling is something too inconsequential to bother with. Hell Pasternakski actually said that the reduction in Japanese combat strength by 3/4 from what it should be achieving "isn't too bad". LOL!!! I'd like to see him say that when we suggest no Allied carrier fleet in 1944 and onwards should be allowed to set CAP to more than 20% ( a similar reduction in that force's combat power).

Let's look at the issues here. Supply quantity is the main problem. Because the is so effing much of it players on either side can sustain offensives on a daily basis using every unit for the entire effing war. Is this correct? Of course not. But what are you guys asking? That they correct a bunch of wrongs with more wrongs so these fantasy offensives can continue? Patton ran out of gas...this can't happen in this game with the joke supply model designed primarily to prop up a crippled and hopeless AI.

What needs to happen is the delinking of supply production to resource production to enable the scenario/map modders to fix the problem with civilian supply sinks, more realistic supply availability etc. Once supply is reduced on a massive scale maybe the game will work more like it was supposed to.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Sneer

i think we caused enough noise to have reaction from Matrix
let's sit and wait for official statement

Mogami wrote today that my campaign at chungking is ok and I'm winning what is visible in combat report so it is ok - no comment

steam preassure was high today and now I wait only for technical staff

Folks were trying to get major design issues fixed since UV...I don't think this one little outburst will tickle hairs on the backs of their necks.

[Sneer]

Ron don't be like the others...
i'm tired to write that i don't want to take chungking overnight
it is my 6th month there - i'd like lower at least forts meanwhile
All 6-7 assaults were massacres - with no single guns on chinase side 3:1 in manpower and absolute advantage in equipment - it is not Stalingrad - in stalingrad defenders did not have to fight 6 months with bayonets and small arms - damn 8k guns and over 1k tanks + 500 bombers - is it nothing against light infantry ?????
are people without imagination????? //// why second iraqi war was able to take Bagdad ????////
during 6 months with abundant supplies all over china and no other fight in almost whole asia i'd like to have supplies stockpiled in offensive purposes

why people don't read - it looks like permament feature on this forum - write before ending reading?!

why people don't look at map ?!

Changsha is not the only base to draw supplies
Sian has 30k surplyus supplies as well
it is total of 80k surplus supplies in the area
there is also route via Kwieyang available


why do I waste time to write anything here????
I'm japenase fanboy because i play Japan and because i want some things to work as it should be.

Why should I write again and again obvious facts ?

PLEASE - before you write - THINK !

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Sneer

Ron don't be like the others...
i'm tired to write that i don't want to take chungking overnight
it is my 6th month there - i'd like lower at least forts meanwhile
All 6-7 assaults were massacres - with no single guns on chinase side 3:1 in manpower and absolute advantage in equipment - it is not Stalingrad - in stalingrad defenders did not have to fight 6 months with bayonets and small arms - damn 8k guns and over 1k tanks + 500 bombers - is it nothing against light infantry ?????
are people without imagination????? //// why second iraqi war was able to take Bagdad ????////
during 6 months with abundant supplies all over china and no other fight in almost whole asia i'd like to have supplies stockpiled in offensive purposes

why people don't read - it looks like permament feature on this forum - write before ending reading?!

why people don't look at map ?!

Changsha is not the only base to draw supplies
Sian has 30k surplyus supplies as well
it is total of 80k surplus supplies in the area
there is also route via Kwieyang available


why do I waste time to write anything here????
I'm japenase fanboy because i play Japan and because i want some things to work as it should be.

Why should I write again and again obvious facts ?

PLEASE - before you write - THINK !

I'm not mindlessly defending the game design like many do around here, otherwise I would probably be on the board of directors. I'm not denying that the land combat model is a failure...I've been saying that before you ever saw the game. But certain models (all!![:D]) fail when the forces employed become large or excessive. And fielding nearly a million men at Chungking and launching assaults with these same men for about a year straight in a theatre that realistically was barely able to sustain limited ground offensives once in awhile during the 41-45 period unless in pursuit of the rice harvests is excessive. So while the land combat needs reworking obviously, so too do the many factors which are allowing the outlandish use of units which often highlight the flaws which many are complaining about.

[Raverdave]

Is it possible to roll back to 1.6 without having to re-install the entire game?  I hope so [:(]

[fabertong]

Are you really going to rollback to 1.6??!?!?!?!?

[Sneer]

it is an option for us
but ....
maybe it will not be needed - i will move another 10 div to chungking and kill this city
later
under 1.8 i have no need to fear allied in india - they will be unable to drive me out of there in 44
all allied units will be few  hexes off bases against fortified enemy
defence against russia in 45 should not be difficult too
all free units will go sooner or later to pacific

[fabertong]

Chungking is always a tough nut to crack.......but it seems to me if you persivere you will take it from Raver.......

[Sneer]

no need to rush
russian will never beat kwantung army under this model
for me it is too late to help

[Sneer]

report from lat 3 days - air-naval battle at eastern route to darwin
attacks on 26th and 28th - 27 th weather prevented strike
on 28th both sides lost 60 planes - allied -P38 jap mixed tony/zero/betty force

western route to darwin is not safe and eastern is not safe too
5/26/43
Day Air attack on TF at 48,91

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24
G3M Nell x 12
G4M1 Betty x 29
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 29

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 9 destroyed
G3M Nell: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 13 destroyed

Allied Ships
DM Gamble, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DM Sicard, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DM Tracy
ML Weehawken, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
ML Oglala, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Day Air attack on TF at 49,91

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15
G3M Nell x 18
G4M1 Betty x 32
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 24

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 5 destroyed
G3M Nell: 1 destroyed, 12 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed, 15 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 14 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 23 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Mugford
AS Sperry
AO Suamico, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Blue, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Bagley
DD Cummings
DMS Zane, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SC SC-708
DMS Dorsey
DD Helm
DD Allen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 49,91

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
G4M1 Betty x 16
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 12

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed, 10 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 13 destroyed

Allied Ships
MSW Skylark, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Caldwell
DD McCalla

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 49,91

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
G4M1 Betty x 12
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 2

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 2 damaged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 49,91

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 3
A6M3a Zero x 3
G3M Nell x 5
G4M1 Betty x 29

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 destroyed
A6M3a Zero: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
G3M Nell: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 8 destroyed, 13 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
MSW Pursuit
DD Caldwell
MSW Swallow
MSW Requisite
DD McCalla

Day Air attack on TF at 47,88

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 16
A6M3a Zero x 24
G3M Nell x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DM Sicard, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
ML Oglala, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 49,91

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12
G4M1 Betty x 7
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 13

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 4 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 16 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Blue, on fire, heavy damage
AO Suamico, on fire, heavy damage

[Sneer]

epilogue
allied convoy losses
AO
2 DM
2 ML
1 DMS
1 DD - not confirmed but looks like Blue is sunk
1 MSW

light forces dms/sc/dd made trough

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/30/43

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 47,89

Japanese Ships
DD Murakumo
DD Uranami
DD Shikinami
DD Ayanami
DD Asagiri
DD Sagiri
DD Oboro
DD Hiyodori

Allied Ships
AO Suamico, Shell hits 17, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Cairns at 47,100

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15
G4M1 Betty x 6

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied Ships
MSW Requisite
MSW Token

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 44,86

Japanese Ships
SS RO-63

Allied Ships
DM Gamble, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

[Andy Mac]

Ummm Sneer I am sure you are aware of this but you do realise how incredibly risky this would be to use all or most of China Army outside China ?

The reason for this is that in my game v String taking Chungking does NOT stop Chinese respawing after Chngking falls any Chinese city held by the Chinese becomes the new source of Chinese respawning (I know this for a fact with Chengtu and I think it was Kweiyang)

So you need to take every Chinese city and the corollory to this is you need to hold them all securely.


Now this next bit gets to speculation and deduction but I think its logical

If you dont hold them in strenght I would expect 50th Indian Para backed by the 4 US Para Bn to be paying China a visit backed by every bomber the allies can muster on CAS. All they need to do is takew the base for 1 or 2 days

1 day after they take a Chinese base voila 500,000 Chinese back in the fight ready to rumble

As the allies get the equivalent of 2 full Para Divisions by 44 thats a lot of ground to cover not to mention the coastal cities

Now I admit the last part is speculation but I think its logical given the roaving respawn status following the fall of Chungking in my game with String

ORIGINAL: aztez

ORIGINAL: Sneer

i want to use them all not half of them 

That would be a problem than [:)]

Anyway just a thought from my own experience. I think we both lost thousands of aircraft in battle over Kweiyang and Chungking. Well hopefully you guys are able to continue. Witp is not perfect and I have grown somewhat "immune" of it's shortcomings.

[Sneer]

1st
all other bases are taken
2nd
all - it means all except garrisons and 3-4 div mobile force - remember that currently i hold east india so china is out of para range and allied are far from PI - mobile force can be taken of these 7-8 units that are still in reinforcement list
3rd
it is far too late
game was bugged enough to halt me on cut off units too long and now chungking does not cooperate - now i have no such bussines

5-10 units will strenghten Kwantung - it was robbed earlier from support units
3-4 mobile reserve deep inland
5-6 coastal cities
5-6 to malaya/burma to relief currently held units
3-5 will be bought out and moved to PI/DEI
5-10 units will move to east india to change southern army units and allow them to go to pacific

that's all - nothing else can be done - as far as paras -- even PI/borneo /indochina is currently at lvl 9 fort - i have a rule to build every held base to lvl 9 fort as my supply situation allows this - i'd like to see full div para landing on 1/3 inf unit dig behind lvl 9 forts deep within my teritory - it will be massacre
and in many places i need to put whole inf div

[Sneer]

stats for end of may 43