sMG 34

[Vince_Tooket]

In the estabs data of the schwereMachinengewehr 34, I have noticed that the "must deploy to fire" box is not checked [:-]. You can can realize the superioty of the use of this weapon in assaulting if they have not to deploy compared to other ennemy MMG/HMG.
It is an error or not?
For me it is!

[Vince_Tooket]

Weapon who needs to deploy to fire, if I have correctly understood, fire when the units is deploy[X(]. But can they be deployed independantly before the whole unit is deployed, when the unit is in deploying mode, or fire when the whole unit is deployed?

[Arjuna]

We classed MG34s, Brens etc as light machine guns, except in designated units where we knew they were specifically employed as MMGs - eg in Hvy Weapons Companies. So basically we're talking about a bipod and not a heavy tripod support. 

[Golf33]

Dave,

I'd double-check that if I were you - I can't right now due to computer probs etc but I think you'll find that the sMG-34 is used by both HMG units and line infantry companies as part of a broken-down battalion support platoon. If the line companies have both sMG-34 and lMG-34, then the sMG-34 would be the heavy tripod version and should be "deploy to fire".

Or was this a change made to simulate heavy weapons remaining static in support of an assault while the rest of the unit moves forward?

Cheers
Steve

[Vince_Tooket]

Or was this a change made to simulate heavy weapons remaining static in support of an assault while the rest of the unit moves forward?

This is what I want to mean when I'have asked if "need to be deployed to fire" weapons can be deployed before the status of the unit is set to "deployed".
In assault, it happens often that a coy stops and return fire. If the HMG 34 fire without deploying then the coy have greater firepower in this phase wheras Vickers MMG cannot.

We classed MG34s, Brens etc as light machine guns, except in designated units where we knew they were specifically employed as MMGs - eg in Hvy Weapons Companies. So basically we're talking about a bipod and not a heavy tripod support.

I'm talking about schweresMG34. schwere = heavy, so with tripod.

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

We classed MG34s, Brens etc as light machine guns, except in designated units where we knew they were specifically employed as MMGs - eg in Hvy Weapons Companies. So basically we're talking about a bipod and not a heavy tripod support. 

The MG34 was an all-purpose weapon. It could be used/deployed as light machine gun (bipod, this version was called "leichtes Maschinengewehr" {LMG}, indeed) or as heavy machine gun on a tripod, even as AA (single or twin-MG34 on a heavy tripod).

The bipod-version already weighed 12,1 kg, so I doubt that the tripod-version had been used by the paras......when gliders were able to bring in some more stuff the HMG-verions were then probably used by the Gegirgsjäger formations), but not by the paras.

The tripod version (HMG) of the MG42 weighed 20,7 kg, for example.....so I guess that the tripod version of the MG34 weighed about the same, a weight that would have slowed down the paras tremendously, since every 8th to 12th para carried a MG34 back then.

It might have been a bit different with regular German Army units (less light MG34s), but the Army bet on speed and mobility as well, so I doubt that the HMG version had been used excessively (unless it was employed in special HW-companies (SS for example)), just like Dave said.
There were Hvy support platoons, but these had been employed to a larger extent later on, in operation "Barbarossa" (Russia), afaik.

[Vince_Tooket]

Paras used the heavy version and the sMG 34 characteristics are used for heer units!!!!
Remember that all weapons have been paradroped in containeers, and if line infantry can go for a walk with it, paras can make it easier.

[GoodGuy]

Dunno if you mix up terms here, whatsoever:

MG 34:
SMG = "schweres Maschinengewehr" = heavy machine gun ---> tripod
LMG = "leichtes Maschinengewehr" = light machine gun ---> bipod

Check the pictures:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waf ... u/MG34.htm

the HMG-version wasn't the standard weapon of the paras, again, due to their heavy weight.
Also, I'd love to see units (paras or army units) advancing rapidly with HMG-versions on their backs, but that just didn't happen (my guess is that at least 2 ppl were needed to carry the parts of a HMG). That said, I doubt that HMG-versions had been used excessively, as they used to be used in fixed positions (fortifications, trenches, etc.) mostly.

[Vince_Tooket]

In assaulting, the mg are placed in static mode to support the advance of the main troop and then follow the force to secure position when the way is relative safe. There are major evolution since 1914 where the MG are purely statics and not use in assault, this need of mg supporting assault and follow forces result of the concept of automatic rifle, sub-machine gun and lighter MG like Vickers,M1917,1919 and others.
On paper TOE specifies that they was 8 sMG 34 in fallschirmjäger Bn. In coy sMG was originaly in heavy-weapon coy like specified in the game manual, but in fact there were diposed on one or specified point when coys advance and this points is hold by a part bn's coys who act as mg protection and reserve troop. The spare and atribution of MG is made at the discretion of the commander of the assault. They where often disposed with front troops in defense, I'm clearly agree with that.

[Vince_Tooket]

Could you send me a corrected version of the estabs?
I'm not motived to spend time to understand the structure of weapons data, even if I cand do myself.

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: Vince_Tooket

Could you send me a corrected version of the estabs?

I'd love to do that, trust me ! [:D] [;)][;)]

[Vince_Tooket]

Some years ago, I'll found this funny, but now I have more important things to do.

[Arjuna]

Vince,

I have checked up on this and you are correct. I failed to notice that the "s" in front denoted the heavy machine gun version.

I'll make the change in the Estab file and put this out in the patch. Thanks you for bringing this to our attention.

TT2975 - Estabs - Set sMG34 to Must Deploy to Fire